Asset Store with Subscriptions

Unity has done some great advancements on making sure that building apps with Unity can be done with long term planning ( e.g. https://blogs.unity3d.com/2016/12/22/unity-sustained-engineering-release-plan/ ).

Now there is a big issue when it comes to asset store: Long term sustainability on plugin dependencies. This is specifically acute for good assets that have been already around for a while and have saturated their market. Yet the userbase expects updates and compatibility fixes, yet the asset developers do not have any business motivation to do so.

Can we have asset store, much like unity itself, offer subscriptions for updates?

I would really like to make sure 3rd party developers who make good assets to be able to sustain their work over long periods of time. it would also give my products more sustainable future as I do not need to constantly worry if specific asset suddenly disappear from the asset store or stop receiving updates.

This naturally needs some business model changes for asset store. But as Unity itself could not sustain pure license model and had to go for subscriptions, I think it would be very much beneficial for the Unity community if this was possible for assets and their dependency for long term product development.

How about something like purchase price and renewal once per year to have updates?

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Yeah, this is one of the bigger issues with the asset store right now. I´ve heard of more than a few cases where people are forced to use old versions of Unity just because they are dependent on asset store stuff that is totally broken in newer versions of Unity. So you either undo all your work with the pack, or you live without new features of Unity…

I personally do not buy certain assets just because there is this deep feeling in my gut that at any moment Unity could do an update that breaks that pack.

I am not sure a subscription model is appropriate though. I think it is already priced into the buy package that the creator is active and involved with keeping the project updated. I see threads in here all the time of those type of creators. Plus most of the stuff is so cheap that how would you even price a subscription model. I buy something for $20 or I pay a $1 a month? What a nightmare keeping track of licensing and if you can use that product if you aren´t currently subbed?

I am just not sure I could name an asset where a sub would make sense. Most of the really popular packs have a higher price because the creator has already shown they update when there are problems. Would I pay a sub for 12 months and have the creator not have any issues and not have to fix anything?

We just have to do due diligence when paying for packs and if it seems like something that might break because of a Unity update, make sure that creator has a history of fixing stuff.

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Nothing to add, subscribing to see if the thread evolve

didnt they added upgrade system for that reason?

I thought about it some more. If they added a subscription model, that means the developers will have to make less upfront money and hope that Unity breaks something to justify their subscription fee. I also think it would create a licensing nightmare. What happens if I subscribe for one month, get the product cancel my subscription and then a month later Unity breaks it but I can fix it myself? (which is usually the case). Or would there be forced subscriptions like 12 months? What happens if Unity breaks it in my 11th month and the developer doesn´t fix it until after my sub expires. You are creating a lot of headaches for the people who manage the asset store without really showing any instances of a pack that would be better as a subscription.

The only packs I think they make sense for are packs that shouldn´t be on the asset store to begin with like the ´make a MMORPG´ kits that have 1/20 of the features that they advertise and then ´promise´ to add them over the coming years. I followed one that literally launched with almost none of it´s advertised features, charged like $100 and 3 years later still doesn´t have anywhere near the features they promised 3 years ago… but now you can buy the ´pro´ version of the same kit which has the same features as the cheaper version, but promises even more.

The asset store lists the changelog for each product on the product page, you can easily see which products keep up with the newer versions of Unity and that should be factored into the price you are willing to pay. If a product hasn´t had an update in two years and has no comments about it being broken, then you have to make a judgement call… but for me, stuff like the LOD system I bought, the changelog history shows a clear history of updating the product after every major Unity update, so I was confident in purchasing it at a higher price than it´s competition.

Just back at the OP, can you show an example pack where you think a subscription would be better than just a buy?

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There are few examples that have already vanished atleast partially due to no sustainable recurring revenue for the author: https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/29883 and more detaile answer from author https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/randomation-vehicle-physics-2-0-now-with-damage.310487/page-10#post-2683432

What I see is balance that is needed between constant hunt for new buyer and accumulating sufficient customer base that can support long term development. Burst of new customers that buy a great asset is good for immediate monetary reward, but sooner than later the importance gradually shifts towards recurring revenue and its importance. Same phenomena we saw with Microsoft Office and any OS and other product that was purely license based. Developers had to try push new shit in the products just to re-sell the old thing. Modern world is very heavily moving towards SaaS model where long term development is enabled without re-inventing the wheel every time to force people to buy upgrades.

Other assets that I feel are vulnerable to the problem here:

BestHTTP: https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/10872
Very fundamental asset that you must make sure does not vanish if you build long term product with Unity that depends on the asset.

Cross Platform native Plugins:
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/31086
Another fundamental asset that bridges native notification systems and purchases, can you imagine the dependency hell once they vanish yet your products are based on the plugin?

Those 2 assets I have been using in products. And the developers are just phenomenal. Their products have removed for us to do development worth of thousands of euros. Yet we paid only few tens of euros. I feel very very uncomfortable to keep “exploiting” their work through out the years without paying more. The developers DESERVE be paid for the never ending exceptional support. Im afraid they saturate their market and run out of cashflow and they will end up inventing new “product” to replenish cashflow and old products die out. This should never happen, but just sheer business logic of asset store will eventually force this to happen when developers have accumulated hundreds of customers who demand bugfixes and updates but dont offer any new cashflow. (e.g. http://www.forentrepreneurs.com/recurring-revenue/)

I know for 3D models and others it is not such a big deal. But all assets / plugins that do “plumming” behind the scenes that enable small indie teams deploy products. These assets are very important yet have very dramatic impact on the team work if they suddenly vanish from market.

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I agree, there is definitely a problem with assets that are necessary and of great value that suddenly disappear. I just am not sure a subscription model wouldn´t cause more problems than it cures. .

You said " when developers have accumulated hundreds of customers who demand bugfixes and updates but dont offer any new cashflow.". I just think the additional cashflow is the ease at which those products make new sales based on their track record and current customer reviews. The HTTP plugin you mentioned has updates every few months and dozens of customer reviews and for that reason it is able to charge 3x´s what it´s competitors are charging and still have a steady flow of new customers.

I am not trying to argue with you, but I already can see what will happen to the asset store if they allow subscriptions and really that depends on what type of subscription model you propose. Would the HTTP plug-in still be $60 plus $1 per month? and if someone stops subscribing, they can´t use it any longer, or they just don´t get the updates? It is easy to think a subscription model would fix the problem, but once you outline exactly how your subscription model would work, it would be easy to see how it would create more problems and exploits.

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If it was known beforehand when I buy asset that I will get support for the next 12 months, and then I would have to buy next year the asset gain, to be eligible for updates and support, I would be just happy with it. Now I just feel very very bad for the incredible work what these developers are doing and as individual I can not fix the problem I see, I cannot shell thousands of euros to the developers as I love their work, to make sure they have food for their family. But what I can do is try to help community to see the issue and make it more sustainable for long term projects to have dependencies to 3rd party plugins/assets.

I really really love Unity and the community around it, specially asset store, just the synergy is so unpredecented in the world compared to 15 years ago.

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Again lost a good asset when developers saturated the number of customers and cannot sustain the updates and bugfixes anymore few years later from the money they got paid back the days. Just very very bad for the Unity ecosystem when this constantly happens. Very hard to build anything when asset store publishers abandon their old products even if the existing customer base would be happy to pay for the updates and support.

I can see both sides of the argument. Personally (as an Asset Store dev), I do think something needs to be done to allow developers to get additional income over time. Right now, you’re effectively expected to provide indefinite support - both in terms of updates & customer queries - all for a one-off purchase. Now some customers are really good about this; I’ve had customers offer to pay for implementing additional features etc, but some others (not to be mean, but particularly less experienced Unity users) can feel quite entitled to support even after paying a relatively small amount of money.

Subscriptions could work, though I feel like it’d have to be okayed by Unity on a case-by-case basis to prevent abuse. The better solution, I think, would be built-in system for offering support contracts. Each Asset Store purchase could specifically come with X months of support for free, then further support could be purchased later. It would solve the uncertainty for customers of knowing how much support they’re entitled to, it would hold asset developers to account for the support they provide, and provide an additional source of income to motivate us to continue working on assets.

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Then offer 5% of your own earnings each month/year to the asset providers that you take advantage of.
Seriously - if you feel like you are exploiting their work - offer compensation to them if you feel they deserve to be paid more.
By volunteering to provide compensation to the assets you use - you are doing what you feel is right, not imposing a system that would ultimately result in reduced sales to existing asset providers. This would result in reduced sales rather than increased sales for purchasers who have agreed to a one time purchase.
Imposing a sub on assets would result in a drastic reduction in sales.

Although I agree we want to support asset developers so the asset store stays robust and keeps package providers earning income for the quality work they preform with updates, I don’t know of too many who mention they are loosing money or not earning any money by updating there packs.
As new users are always signing up (downloading the engine) and searching through the asset store for quality products to help them develop games, do asset providers hit a point where their asset is totally saturated into the market and they are not gaining new users?
If there is any asset that could be researched that might have total market saturation - I think it would be Playmaker. But Jean continues to update the pack and support the community by answering reoccurring questions in the forums, posting links to new packages with Playmaker support, and linking to new products using Playmaker.

I think the best approach is not subscriptions - but enhancements to the assets (not just updates to the latest version of Unity) that provides such a improvement over the last version that the asset can be considered a new asset 2.0. And people who have purchased the 1.0 version can be given a discount of 50% off or something like that.
Allowing the asset developers to create a 2.0 version of an asset (as long as this is not taken advantage of with lite updates) this system can provide asset developers with ongoing compensation to support continuous updates and enhancements to assets.

As an assetstore developer, but also a dev in a company that owns hundreds of paid assets, I shiver even thinking about it. If anything, it will make even more assetstore publishers plug their code into dlls.

My take on the assetstore is every now and then you can buy a half-developed gem, put some more work into it and make it shine. I think that’s the beauty of it.

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If I was in a position to hire all the plugin developers and pay them to do their work well I would just do that. But that is not realistic, I’m not in such position, my extra 50€ / year for a specific developer is not going to help them feed their family, but when there are few hundred clients who are and want to keep dependency to specific plugin it is already different story. They could afford to maintain their product.

Only problem is the long term with asset store. I don’t know if subscriptions are good approach for it. Maybe it is not the silver bullet. I just see the problem here, a serious problem for Unity as ecosystem. How that problem can be solved is different thing. “Never bring problem without bringing solution” I tried to bring mine.

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Yeah - I agree. I think 2.0 versioning can be a sustainable workable solution, although we may encounter packages not being updated with feature enhancements, but the provider requiring a 2.0 update purchase for just an update to the next version of Unity. I think most asset providers want to keep there packages updated so they stay relevant for the upcoming developers who also see a quality product and will purchase them.
We are not all vets (I don’t count in that group) who have been around for years collecting assets. Every day their are new developers joining the fold of the Unity team/community - and just like us they will see purchasing benefits in buying assets (priced so low to begin with) that can sustain quality products like BestHTTP through upgrade cycles.

Until developers can affirm an asset is helping them make sustained earnings per month - they will not be willing to pay out of pocked a subscription for a package that is not helping them earn money with the creations they make.
Developers who have seen success may (willingly of there own choice) provide additional compensation to those package providers who have aided them in the creation of games that have gone on to create sustained earnings.
Kind of like Unity’s business model -

I think its pretty easy for most or all of us to agree that there are issues with asset sustainability.

I’ve called for something like subscriptions in the past, and I recognise there are flaws with this solution.

Thinking about it more, I decided to dwell on the various reasons why some assets are not sustained. Sometimes it is money, but there are other reasons too. Change in life circumstances, sick of the amount and nature of the task of providing support, tired of how much updating can be required to keep up with changes in unity releases. And perhaps sometimes people get bored of their asset and struggle to find the motivation to continue it. Income can influence these things but sometimes no sensible amount of income is enough and some assets will still die because of this.

Sometimes I wish that, in order to offer a solution to the problem no matter the cause, it would be nice if unity had a division that pro-actively came along and did deals to take ownership of certain assets that were otherwise about to be abandoned. Not very often, just with certain assets that have been extremely popular, are not on their way to natural obsolescence, and are complex & powerful enough/involve areas of unity that evolve all the time and require maintenance. Yes there are some issues with this ‘solution’ too, and obviously to date unity has not really gone near this area.

Without Unity ‘interfering’ in this way, I suppose the market place does tend to function along the lines of where there is still demand, some other product will come along to fill the demand left by the previous assets departure from the market. I suppose the problem with this solution is that many of us recognise that our time is money, and would rather pay money periodically to keep alive the asset we’ve already invested time in learning & integrating with our projects & other assets, than have to start all over again.

I cant say I’m that optimistic that the problem is fully solvable when I think back to events surrounding the demise of many of my favourite assets from the past. Public discussion on forums etc often recognises the signs of slow demise or reacts in shock to a sudden one, but its not that often that it seems like there are real opportunities to change the fate of the asset, often it just becomes clear the developer(s) are done with it, the end, bye.

Given many of the assets that were cherished by me that have since ‘died’ were in the category of assets that inject themselves into the graphics rendering somewhere along the way, the whole Scriptable Render Pipeline stuff thats slowly coming alive during these first cycles of 2017 releases is on my radar as a period of some uncertainty - it’s way too early to judge yet, this journey does not really start quite yet, but that also means I have to prepare myself to have no preset expectations about which assets I own and love now will thrive in the scriptable render pipeline era.

Actually speaking of that I may as well admit that I have a ‘romantic’ dream about a whole bunch of talented asset store devs coming together and adding a ton of really cool stuff to the base render pipeline examples that unity will provide (eg HD pipeline), in one new branch. I’d love to subscribe to that, that would be worth money every month to me, but I know better than to expect it to happen.

Yeah I agree ,it is not easy problem to solve. Specially as there are assets that simply do not need any upgrades or warrant any kind of maintenance. It should be maybe somehow curated by Unity staff? Maybe this Element 11 thing was supposed to bring sustainable income to authors but it sounds like a communist scam in terms of solving any problems.

No, a subscription model is a really bad idea. There are better ways to improve your profitability. If an asset is really great and fills a need then it’s going to continue to do that year after year as long as it’s maintained for both new Unity version compatibility and upgraded features to keep the product attractive. If it’s a niche product that doesn’t really fill the needs of most users then it’s probably not something you should be releasing for mass market consumption anyway.

And you can always do three things to get more income:

One, release a much improved and more up to date version 2.0 that is a significant upgrade from the previous version. You can charge a little more and you can provide upgrade pricing for existing users of version 1.0.

Two, take a modular approach and create a base or core module and provide add-ons that enhance the functionality of the product.

Three, create more assets to sell that fill the needs of a wide range of users. Not only will you hook new users, but you’ll probably be able to get your loyal existing customers to buy them as well.

A subscription model is going to turn off most buyers. Just look at Apex’s disaster with Apex Utility AI. They tried to enforce a subscription model outside the store and it went very badly. They ultimately got rid of that, but it really damaged their reputation.

There are a lot of good developers who simply sunset products and offer a new version every year or so. Too lazy to look, but there is a guy that does an awesome foliage shader who does this. At some point in time, he simply stopped ´supporting´ version 3 and created a completely new product that is version 4. His version 3 was awesome and had a long shelf life, so the people that were happy with the product and the support he gave for it had no problem buying version 4. I think he then made version 3 free with the caveat that it might not work on newer versions of Unity. The developers also now have the ability to offer an upgrade price. So the guys who bought version 3, might get a discount when they buy version 4. If you want one of these guys to make more money on their updates, why not recommend that they release a completely new product.

But other than that, I think you are discounting the intelligence of these guys. They know their product and they know how likely it is to require updates along the way and that should be factored into their initial sales price.

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Can you explain me how exactly this logic works? Maybe I misunderstand something obvious about saturating the market and having no recurrent revenue. I would be happy to learn how this works. Unity could not work this way, so I would be very happy to understand the business logic behind your reasoning. If it did not work for Microsoft, Unity and thousands of other companies. I would really like to learn how the model you describe works for asset store publishers.

OH! I see… :eyes:

And how does partitioning YOUR product increase your customer base for your product? I dont see how eating your own cake in smaller pieces increases the cake. You get few limited edition users yet you end up with same issue of saturating market.

Yes, every asset store developer, specially if single guy, can split their attention between multiple products AND keep supporting multiple products AND have very succesfull multiple products. What you are describing is abandonware what is BIG plague of the asset store due to market saturation without recurring revenue.

Sorry mate, there has to be something sustainable…

So, they saturated the market, had 10000 customers to support without extra money, they tried to solve the problem with external system and ramming it down the users throat? Exactly what I earlier described is MY problem also. Specially if access to product was limited. You are barking at the wrong direction if you blame subscription model Im afraid.

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@Cromfeli Sorry that you are so bitter about this, but I’m an asset store buyer, not an asset store seller and I’m just giving you my honest opinion. I would not buy from someone who had a subscription model. And I’ve heard countless others express the same views. So if you want your consumers to buy your product, instituting a subscription model is probably not going to be the way to go. Unless you’re content with a tiny user base that sustains your income and you drive away the rest of your potential customers. If Unity allows a subscription model, but doesn’t force authors to use it then there will always be some other vendor selling a comparable product without a subscription model and will beat you out. If Unity’s mass market doesn’t appeal to you then go into private contracting and write code for exclusive use and charge hourly rates for your time.

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