Business in China

I have seen a few folks from China here who can answer a few questions I have. We have some folks who are pals of our AI programmer who have a clothing business in China. They have agreed to handle graphical text and voice translations for our line of games for distribution in China. I dealt with many Chinese when I was dealing in commodities and enjoyed their pragmatic methodologies. What I would like to know is what the deal is for setting up for distribution on Apples China portal. As well any info on gaming portals that accept games and give payout that are Chinese and not English oriented so our folks can take a look around and make contacts. Is there anything else I should know, like about taxes, copyright protection etc.

TIA
BTH

This argument is very interesting for me too: up!

Don’t worry about taxes and copyright protection.
I don’t mean there are no such thing,just because you won’t make too much money by games.
Maybe MMO games could make money,
You know why?because MMO games have no piracy.
But you should know,there are too many MMO games in china,very hard competition.
The people here don’t have payment habits and the way for payment is not easy enough for people in china.
If you are not agree with me,just think about are there any games(except MMO games) sold good in china?
PS:if you want make money with MMO game in china,then prepare at least 5M $ for “one” game,or you would lose your cloth.
PPS:go to find out the per capita income of chinese people,you would understand everything.

What about the Apple AppStore in China? I am not interested in the other things you spoke to. MMO? Why do people get all arrogant and assume you are dealing with children around here? And taxes don’t exist? If they do then your flippant answer was not required. As for knowing about China… I dealt with Chinese daily for two years in heavy melting steel, iron ore from Brazil, currency swaps and other esoterica like the Hapsburg Diamond and a 10 inch Green Pearl. Not everyone is poor there and they have the largest bank account out of all the countries…not that that translates into games necessarily However, I never had to worry about any legalities other than UCC and US IRS. That was the reason for my inquiry in regards to taxes and wanting to know if there is an AppStore in or planned for China? Figured someone around here from that way may have some pertinent info. I certainly didn’t expect a lecture meant for a noob on MMO’s.

THX
BTH

There is a chinese appstore (or more correctly they have access to all thats not explicitely marked to not happen there), since very recently (2 months or so) there is also chinese localization exposure in the store etc

Though I tend to agree with the “there is that much piracy that pay to get” models is a very tricky thing. China has one of the highest jailbreak ratios from what I recall.
I would approach it with a more “androidy way” ie free + ad + inapp store. as china is meant to get iAd early 2011 that makes it a rather attractive target (cause 2/3 of europe don’t have it and don’t have a date for the time being)

ok,then here are something about appstore in china.
first,there is one thing called “black card”,i don’t know what is it called in english.
with this card, you could buy games on appstore without pay for money or too much money.
this is illegal.
but what could apple do with these people in china except seal their account?
Sue them?where?at china or at american or at any other country?with which law?china or american or …?
in china,the law said that is illegal,but there are too many of them,which one do you want to sue?
this is for people who are poor.
you said some people who are rich in china.
yes,they are rich and too rich.
but i can count them with my finger.
so,china could be a big market for luxury.
but you can’t make too much money from them,because the price of your game.
what?you sell your game at 10000$ in china?
then why the rich buy that?they could use “black card” and no danger.
so,that’s all about appstore in china.
you could make money but not too much.
by now,my suggest is wait for the people in china change their payment habits.

ps:you won’t get money from the people pay you with “black card”.

i won’t sell my game in china or use chinese in my game.
it’s suicide.

Sometimes it ain’t all about money. If it was I would still be selling commodities and not following my art where it leads me. To each their own.

Best
BTH

@Buster - you did ask for legal insight into China’s game market. And I believe you did get some solid business direction. You’re not talking to international Chinese companies, nor the international business men and women from that country. Your talking about direct marketing to the Chinese consumer market. And yes, traditional accepted North American business practice is largely unviable in many places in the world, including most of Asia.

A proven successful game approach is to build MMO, lower volume multi-player, and to a lesser extent online only games that you give away, then charge micro-payments for in-game add-ons. Best practice is to use a retail purchasable game card based system (there are several already available to license/use in the region).

If you’re looking for a unified legal definition to use as your base assumption, I believe you’ll be disappointed. China, in particular, is divided (from a “selling to consumers” point of view) into zones. “Business or commerce” zones are the most affluent. Copyright laws do exist, but enforcement is historically lacks. As with doing business with any Asian country, there is also a different acceptable business practice. In many countries, formal “bribs” are not only acceptable, but expected method of interacting both with business and government officials, I believe in China that varies by region. So even if someone grabs your game, goes into formal mass production, and out sells you 1000 to 1, such a practice by a China national may well be “legal” depending on who they are, and what steps they’ve taken locally. Chinese courts would also tend to side with nationals as opposed to a US business or citizen (remember, the US legal system is not the world standard when it comes to treating anyone, regardless of nationality or other factors, as equal under the law… even that gets “fuzzy” in the US some times :slight_smile: ).

That doesn’t mean the market is lost, just that you have to conform to their business environment, not the other way around. It can be daunting, and there are many “cultural” factors to your game localization that may be more painful than the straight translation of your text to Mandarin. One example, although Japanese not Chinese, is the story of Abe’s Odd World… when they went to publish the game in Japan, the Cultural authority (which you will find exists in China as well) rejected the game on the basis that it was culturally insensitive. Turns out old Abe had 4 fingers, which (and I might butcher this story a little here, it’s been a while) is the “mark” or common trait of a Japanese fish cutter, and a mark of … not shame, but something like it. People don’t generally discuss it in polite circles (make sense?). So, the end result is Abe lost another finger :slight_smile: Poor guy, as if he didn’t have it rough enough already :smile:

I hope this helps,

Galen

The folks handling the Chinese end will be owners of an international clothing manufacturing company. They are family fiends of the AI/SILVIA programmer, a 60 year old gentleman whose father worked on the original IBM AI teams. I simply wanted enough “jargon” to be able to speak to them about the issue when I have a conference call to them, currently in NYC from Beijing. Thanks all for your input. I do not need advice on what to build. I have appropriate funding based on an overall plan that spans about two to three years of designated projects. Good story on Abe to toss around with these folks. Thanks.

@galent - I spent the summer of 74 in Newfoundland selling encyclopedias to fishing villages(Canadian living in Atlanta). I got tossed out of one old leather faced fishermans house when I got to the part in the sample book about man landing on the Moon. He said “Lardy liftin’ jeezus. You expecting me to believe that load o’ molarkey?” Beautiful country along the coast. My best pal in high school was from NF. They certainly had some colorful phrasing and sayings. Longest standard cuss I have ever heard is from there. My friend and his dad said it and i thought it was a family thing till I got to boot camp and my corporal cussed someone out with the exact words “lardy liftin’, bally headed, spindle footed, blue dancin’, soutafrican son o’ dancin’ jezzus!”

Best Regards
BTH

Hey Buster,

good deal, I never know what detail is “good enough” with these types of questions. One of my areas of speciality is IT Globalization (internal off-shoring and products - usually software). I find I spend more time on cross-cultural and legal issues than actual IT :slight_smile:

As your your NF connection, HA! Ahh it’s good to hear from another old encyclopedia man! I got “drafted” into those sales in a dark time of my life out in BC back in the '90s… you got off easy :slight_smile: Nothing like showing up in a dress shirt and pants in the late evening in Vancouver or Calgary selling encyclopedias at twice the cost of a low end PC! Some of those folks were better armed than any of my American friends :slight_smile: I actually just moved back here after 10 yrs in Minnesota. Spend some time at IBM myself (dev labs and global services). Little known fact, one of NF’s biggest exports for years has been … inventive (and colorful) swearing :slight_smile: My mother-in-law can still make a Scottish sailor blush :smile:

:lol:

Anyway, good luck on the new market. Are you looking at any other Asian markets, or just China for now?

Cheers,

Galen

I couldn’t sell a damned encyclopedia set. I eventually, being held hostage and dropping me off in remote villages at 1 and picking me up at 10, made up four bogus customers and they flew me back to Montreal on the “money” I made, tried to threaten me later and I told them, I was kidnapped…bring it on!..heh… The names were bogus- “Justin Case” and “Jacques Trappe” were two I remember.

The hardest part in boot camp was the Newfie Corporal would chew out these guys with his colorful dialect and boy you did not giggle nor smirk or you were doing monkey drill at 140 bpm. He frakkin’ knew it too and pushed it to the sky limit just to get someone to burst out and then give them 50 push-ups for starters.

Other markets? Well, next year around the beginning of summer we are going to start in Amsterdam and stay a few months here and a few months there. I can code scripts anywhere on the iPad and do 3D/Unity stuff at our transient HQ’s. So a tour of Europe, then off to Thailand, Cambodia, smoke a few at Angkar Wat, then Japan and Bali. Gotta take my rescued Moluccan Cockatoo to see her homeland:) That is if the danged thing ain’t volcanoed into the ocean soon!

Best
Randy