I’m wondering if any of you have had the experience of drastically changing the direction of your game(s) after having developed them for a while. That’s what just happened to me a few days ago, after I spent about ten days on a road trip across the U.S… I wasn’t happy with the direction my game was going (kind of an rpg/adventure/puzzle game), mostly because I realized how huge, unwieldy and time-consuming it was getting to be. I had read all the forums warning that such a game can take years of development without a good crew working alongside you, especially if you’re completely new at this kind of thing–but I paid them no heed.
During the trip, I visited relatives, who inadvertently gave me ideas for a much smaller casual type game. Most of the young kids were really into simple math and educational games, which surprised me. Only one of them was playing Starcraft, but even he liked the more casual stuff. The road trip itself inspired me with a lot of ideas, and pretty soon I found myself brainstorming a new game for the last 1300 miles of the drive.
Now I’m very excited by a new, more casual, easier-to-produce game that I can have up and running in only a few months. I’ve already created a lot of assets for the original game that I can easily use in this new game, so nothing was wasted, and it will save a lot of time. Needless to say, Unity can make even the most simple game look and feel professional, so this whole game dev thing is becoming more real and tangible to me. Even though I had my heart set on creating another Myst (a newb’s dream of grandeur), I’m just as excited going the casual route. Plus, I can expand the casual game as much as I want, until it rivals Starcraft and allows me to fulfill my dream of owning my own Lear jet. 8)
yes. i’m in the exact same position. i have a large FPS going that i’ve spent a while on will take quite a while longer (maybe even a year). it will be finished eventually (count on it!) but the realization hit me a while back that ‘going long’ so to speak for a noob first game is IMO really silly. even if you can perservere get it done who’s to say you’re not going to bork the marketing, distribution etc. i’d rather learn that stuff with small one-off casual games that take 2 months to produce than risk it all in one shot with something that took 2 years of hard work.
also there’s the side note of money (i’m a poor bastard with a dream ; ) - which even if i release a casual game that makes $50 a month, that’s money i didn’t have before and eventually can go to maya or something neccessary for the ‘big’ one down the road.
so IMO - take your lumps, make your mistakes learn all the valuable lessons on something simple both money timewise. that way you can give the bigger games the proper shot they deserve ; )
Refactoring or changing projects can be a good thing, but one thing you have to watch out for which is all too common is jumping all over the place when things aren’t working out.
No game is easy, so if your game is within the relm of possibility for you, and it’s a good design, it’s best to go with that. Project X or Z will most likely be just as hard.
Too many people make the mistake of assuming that “this other game will be easier because…”, but then they find out part-way through development that “damn, this game is hard too, maybe if I make a…”.
I too can releate to this. I got a demo of subz up and cranking even to the point of calling it a beta and unleashing it on a few forum members.
It was unwieldly also, mainly because the enemy subs were so tiny on the screen. If it wasnt for Joachims Homing missile script it wouldve been a complete non starter.
I got some AAA+ feedback beta testing it though, and all the advice is worth its weight in gold. I intend to redo the assets and make them more candyish, as well as implementing around 99% or the testers suggestions.
It is funny how the guys with the experience go “Hang on, thats a bit outrageous” and reign their projects in, possibly to the point of severely limiting them, wheras people who dont know what theyre in for shoot for the stars and attempt/sometimes achieve an amazing result, even though it was a lot harder than expected…
Lucky for us the OTEE guys gave us this opportunity in the first place.
And for that, I think we all owe you a big thank you.
I did this too. How practical is it to build, say, the first level and the intro sequence of the game and then look around for additional support, say from publishers or by entering a contest?
Yes, I agree, I’m starting to think that it’s better for me to introduce a smaller project into the market as soon as I can so that I can learn that aspect of game dev as well. I feel that if I continue with the larger project and introduce that in the “distant” future, I would run into bigger problems as far as marketing and the business end is concerned. Now my thinking is that it’s better for me to cut my teeth climbing a few Old Smokeys before I tackle Mt. Everest.
jeremyace said:
Yes, I thought about this too, that maybe I was just getting cold feet looking at all the work ahead of me or thinking that “the grass is greener on the other side,” but I realized that that wasn’t the problem. It’s more like an intuitive thing, with the little voice inside my head saying, “Hm, I think you’ve got to reign this in or change course.” I’ve worked on many long-term projects in the past, including an unpublished book that took years to write. Instead, I see this new game as a short term/long term project for which I’ve already done a lot of the asset work. In other words, it’s going to be an updatable game that I can introduce fairly quickly and then continue to update over time (an “episodic” type of game that I can easily change at least once a month). And yes, you’re right, I can already see that it’s still going to be a lot of work–the fun kind, of course.
Targos said:
Lol, unfortunately, as big as my project was, it didn’t feel like I was shooting for the stars. Part of the reason I changed direction was that my intuition was nagging me that the game was pretty run-of-the-mill, even boring. With the new game, I’m using some of the better ideas from the old game and integrating them with the new ideas. So far my intuition is giving me the thumbs up.
Marble said:
That’s how things are often done in the world of book publishing, where authors submit first chapters of a work in progress, but I’m not sure if it’s done in the game dev world. So far the Unity community and OTEE have been invaluable with their comments in the Showcase section. Fortunately, it’s fairly easy to change textures, animations, etc., without scrapping the whole game when you get constructive criticism in the forums.
Huh. You and I must come from similar worlds. What sort of book were you trying to get published? I’ve been on the short story and screenplay circuit for a couple of years. I’m just not as relentless as I need to be with the business side of things. It worries me since game development has the same kind of ambiguous market that sort of needs to be “pushed” into.
How much of your dev time would you say you spend making assets? I got really bogged down in them for my last project and decided to turn tail and make a game where I could focus on the design and the writing (just dummy assets). It’s worked out real well, and it doesn’t even look that bad.
Only if you’re a known author…if not, you submit the first chapters, but you’d also better have the rest actually written in case the publisher expresses interest. I imagine the game industry is similar, in that if you’re a known quantity you can get some interest with a demo or proposal, but other than that you probably need a complete game. (“…And if you liked Level 1, just wait until you see the rest! They’re awesome! Uh, just as soon as I get around to, er, making them…” ::door slams:: )
Some publishers seem willing to try out concepts. Ambrosia got involved with Redline before the author was a proven quantity, and long before the game was finished. Groups like ATMOS, who built the scenarios for EV Nova, were quite new as I remember.
Freeverse also seems to be friendly to “rough sketches.” Even though Kill Dr. Cote was a full game, they did a lot to make it commercial. Didn’t they also back the developer who created that game where you had to protect a VIP from assassins?
I think the main point with that is if you haven’t shipped a full commercial game before, the publishers will be a lot more likely to pay attention to you if you are coming to them with a full game.
That way they don’t have to worry about you having what it takes to finish it because…well…you just did.
My experience is that you can come to them with a good one-level just fine. If you haven’t shipped before (and quite likely, haven’t shipped with them) forget about an advance.
I’d say get the publisher in early (well, once you have something good to hook 'em with), then work WITH them to actually make it a good game. They can do testing, setting up beta list. When we worked with Ambrosia, they had a tester group they spent years accumulating. These guys knew how to report a bug, when to shut up, when to give helpful advice. And yeah, we couldn’t slip a thing past 'em.
Also, if the project slips a bit towards the end, but the publisher can see its moving along nicely, then you can most likely get them to pay you a small advance.
How do contests figure into your appeal as a game designer? If you can get your name next to some awards, how much better are your chances of being approached, or approaching, a publisher with your demo?
I wrote a non-fiction book based on a cross-country bike trip I took in the '80’s. It started out as an expansion of a journal I kept while on the trip. Originally I only meant to give a copy to each of my travel companions, but then it took on a life of its own, and I decided to treat it as a manuscript that I would send to publishers. 600 pages and several drafts later I did send it to publishers, only to receive enough rejection notices to insulate my house. Aside from that book, I also wrote (unpublished) sci fi/fantasy short stories and tried my hand at novels and interactive children’s books. I minored in English and won a National Council for Teachers of English award for writing when I was in high school. Despite that, my dream of being a successful writer faded over the years…only to be replaced by my current dream of being a celebrated game dev guru! The interactve children’s books helped guide me in this unexpected direction.
I was going to answer your question about game assets, but it’s almost five in the morning, and I kept falling asleep while trying to compose just one sentence. So I’ll just say good night!
)