Controllers dont have enough buttons.. More control!

News & General Discussion
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LOL heres a topic you guys probably dont talk about much but…

so, Iam making a PC game … and I realize plenty of people may prefer to play with a controller…
how common is this? … I see a few people on youtube use xbox360 controller for PC for PC games, and plenty of PC games use xbox360 controllers … I have the means to use that controller with Unity
iam going to use this: [Free] Custom Input Manager - Community Showcases - Unity Discussions

now the thing is, with a keyboard and mouse there is TONS of keys/buttons … but with a xbox360 controller there is Not Enough …

I recently was watching some video about atari jaguar lol… old crappy console… and the guy says the numberpad on the controller is “weird” … and I thought… well… I wish that was the standard controller they use now… lol…

but yeah… im just going to have it like… when you hold LB… most the other buttons change to have different function… like shift+X or alt+X or ctrl+X on a PC

I wonder what you all have to say on this topic… lol now I think about it, I wonder how other PC games that support controllers do it ( i dont use controller myself, but to support it for my game is something i want)… I guess soo many AAA games now that are cross-platform are dumbed down to be cross-platform (which is lame as hell) … like, cod2, cod4, codWaW had leaning on PC … and then they took it out… (wtf!)

I guess most people make simpler games than what I intend… mainly… theres some games where it feels like, when i do something Awesome in a game, i feel awesome like “Iam the greaaatest!!” … but then that feeling is diminished by … “well… really i just pressed a button and the character is awesome, not me” (im talking about like, in path of exile, the skills are just hotkey presses) … i want to make a game like that, but with like “slash high, slash mid, slash low, stab high, stab left, stab right” … or something like this… that, the gameplay is very an individuals skill, not so much just stats and hotkeys

recently ive been playing red orchestra 2, and in terms of fps it really adds alot the variety of control… there is leaning, sprinting while crouched, fps cover system, hipfire vs iron sight vs focused iron sight, normal grenade throw vs underhand grenade throw … and sprint vs bonzai charge… for example… it adds alot for me, to have greater control than say… counterstrike

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You’d like Steel Battalion.

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Are you straddling genres? Successes like LOL have 4 primary abilities plus a few extra. Platformers and action games typically have fewer buttons/actions than PC games, as gameplay focuss on TIMING and AIMING. When in doubt, consider the axiom: “Less is More”.

Gigi

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I’d say controllers have too many buttons.

They’re certainly intimidating for a lot of people who might otherwise play more games.

For instance, my wife likes to play games, but she doesn’t want to learn a ton of crazy button combinations just to get the basic controls of a game.

Mostly we play Diablo III, or Civ 5.

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I think current console controllers are about where they need to be as far as number of inputs are concerned. Anything more would make them too unwieldy to actually use, and I think more dangerously, invite developers to make bad decisions. What if there were two jump buttons on the NES controller, where one makes Mario jump high, and the other just a little hop? Does this give the player more control over their character? Sure. But does it do so in the best way? Certainly not.

If the complexity of a game is from learning the controls, then you’re doing it wrong. Unless that’s somehow part of the gameplay, I guess…

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Unless I’m flying a spaceship, I shouldn’t need to use more than half of a keyboard.

As much as PC gamers lament simplification, it’s still something they’ve benefited from. It used to be pretty damn helpful to have the manual nearby so that you could look up what keyboard command the inventory was set to. Hell, just look at old point and click adventures that had ten different ways to interact, and ask yourself if 99% of cases can’t be simplified down to a single interact context without losing anything.

Historically, it was complexity for complexities sake. Leaning for instance, doesn’t really have much of a purpose outside of a stealth game where it’s quite useful to move the camera without moving your feet. Leaning was a flourish, a trick that adds flare but without serious reason.

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That’s the heart of it, right there. Sure, any game can be simplified down to a button or two. The sweet spot is getting it down so you don’t have complexity for complexity’s sake, while still feeling like the player’s input matters.

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wtf… leaning is REQUIRED in like red orchestra… … really,though the way they did it in medal of honor airborne was THE BEST … and cod without leaning just ruined the game entirely

decent input though

here is an example, previous game idea… (like 50 percent made lol)

1920×1080 185 KB

anyway… so its like a twin stick shooter…
i didnt get around to using the other D pad controls, but theyd probably be like flashlight/night vision … and i wasnt sure to make Y switch weapon … or Dpad switch weapon…
soo… hotbar … when holding LB itd make YBXA (and maybe d pad) become “hotbar” which is like 1-8 on the keyboard… the hotbar holds skills … which this would be like hotkey skills …
also yeah… not so sure how to add leaning was thinking hold Rstick and press LB RB, but not sure about that…, i personally think, for a shooting game leaning is REQUIRED… never gonna budge on that opinion… people dont expose their whole body to shoot if they dont have to…

also… use and reload should be separate buttons i think… this is basically cod’s layout( I figured id stick with a standard)

lol also… is it legal to use this image in my game, in a menu? (the button icons are public domain link FREE Keyboard and controllers prompts pack | OpenGameArt.org … allows for connect/disconnect controller and it switches from keyboard/mouse to controller during runtime… also, lets you configure inputs InGame… and i couple other neat things i forget, and the controller i edited out logos (and im giving them free advertising))

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Do you also hate WoW? Forbes reports there are 27 MILLION LOL players, EVERY DAY! It’s easy to hate on success - amateurs and teen’s do it all the time. Professionals, on the other hand, study success, hoping to learn.

Gigi

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i do also hate WoW lol … as a gameplayer… and as a game designer, i want nothing to do with those games… theyre just waaay too lame to me… but i know what youre saying… not really about hating success… its more like … hating how stupid people seem to be or something like that lol … oohh and i =HATE= microtransacts and DLC and subscription

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Sounds like a really serious case of “Only that which I like is good, everything else is stupid.”

Thank god I don’t ever have to work with you.

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WHY was it needed though. If your answer is immersion, you haven’t actually stated a reason, just opinion.

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play red orchestra and youll see… if a enemy can see you, you are dead.… you have to lean out of cover, shoot, unlean, bolt action rifle, lean out and shoot, unlean bolt action … etc… also, guys are watching doorways like a hawk, if you walked into a doorway youre dead… if you lean into a doorway you at least have half a chance … but yeah red orchestra is not an arcade fps really, youre shooting like 2 pixels in the distance alot

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So what kind of game is it that you’re making? As a minimalist designer I don’t run out of buttons because that would typically only come as a result of adding a lot of stuff to my game.

Take Far Cry 4, for instance. It has leaning, but it does not have buttons for leaning. If you aim at the corner of something and you’re standing against it then the character leans out around it. Simple controls, intuitive execution (aiming is aiming… that’s all there is to it), no extra buttons, doesn’t remove anything useful to make it happen, doesn’t introduce conflict, doesn’t require me to learn anything additional. Also, didn’t require instructions.

Early Assassins Creed also did it well, I think. Four action buttons on the gamepad, and the player can be acting normally, aggressively or submissively. Each of the action buttons uses the same part of the body (legs, left arm, right arm, head) but the action performed depends on the mode - normal, aggressive or submissive. So six buttons did over a dozen things, switching modes and then actions appropriate to those modes. It was a complex system, but with a little practice it became intuitive because the visuals, mechanics and controls blended so well.

I have nothing against adding complexity to a game. However, I always ask “can I do this in a less complex way?” “Does this complexity improve the game?”

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I’ve found LoL and WoW are best played with friends. If you’re trying to play solo, you’ll find it is easy to hate it. The communities that exist around it are simply too immature in most cases.

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I find that any online game is best with friends. I love playing Battlefield with a squad, but solo pubbing gets old fast.

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This post makes me think of games like Steel Battalion… which came with its own… “controller”.

3456×2304 1.47 MB

:hushed: Trust me, less is more.

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Wooah!! :hushed:

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yeah that controller looks so awesome, never played that, but it seems so awesome, Lol reminds me of, i was looking up how to make multiple keyboards work (for splitscreen) … and i seen some people made cockpits for flight sim games, using multiple keyboards… or actually those gamer peripherals that are like little keypads… looked real cool

mainly, i was just talking about… like that other game i posted that xbox controller pic for… it needs like 6-8 more buttons…
on a keyboard the controls are just like 2 more buttons than a standard FPS game with leaning. and like 1-8 to switch to certain weapons… but in my use itd be skills… like diablo or path of exile, you press certain numbers to use different skills

LOL that photoshopped “ps4” controller is ridiculous… but itd be cool the button in the middle, that infinity … and the 4 diagonals on the dpad and the 2 extra buttons by start and select, looks decent obviously all the extra R&L and sticks is just silly

but seriously … okay… so xbox360 controller has like 12 buttons (including start, back, stick clicks), 4 dpad, and 2 sticks

PC … okay… WSAD = 1 stick , mouse movement = other stick
Q E, leaning … say = RB, LB
(i use) C or Lctrl - crouch, X or Lalt - prone, Space - jump = A, B, Y … cod has stance up or jump and stance down , instead of the seperate 3 buttons…
R -reload , F - use = X ( cod) … would prefer seperate buttons
L click and R click = RT LT the triggers
1,2 - switch weapons = upD downD
G,H - grenade1, specialGrenade = leftD, rightD (cod uses LB RB, but has no lean (LAME!))
pause/menu - esc = start
inventory- I or tab = back
middle mouse, or V - melee = Rstick down
Lshift - sprint = Lstick down
no more buttons - standard FPS (cod)

so now… cant innovate, cant come up with more ideas, more “moves” or whatever … not with standard 360 controller (important for me because i want splitscreen on PC)

easily on PC, could use middle mouse, middle mouse forward and back, 3,4,5 z maybe, capslock, tab if I is inventory … and obviously whole rest of keyboard… but these are easily in hands reach from the “home” position of WSAD

so 7 more buttons and a 2way axis (or 2 buttons)

well i was making like a thirdperson , kinda twin stick shooter, i played running with rifles, and im like “i can make that!” but with more ideas thrown in…

some things that need more buttons - baseball slide, i had doubleTap sprint to sprint or just hold it to “run” , also i was making so you have to bandage… the player bleeds out slowly , also you control a squad and give squad commands( i was gonna make that a radial menu), also a unique cover system(like mohAirborne, but not really), i was gonna come up with more ideas for skills… like baseball slide would be a skill … and like charge with bayonet, and “gangsta style” aim (you get more xp but its kinda suckier… tradeoff) and even block bullets with a sword

what bogged me down is that, i had most of these mechanics made, BUT … level design… ugh… idk i just wasnt interested much for the level design, like, itd need to be a city, but its like… well… just place down random buildings randomly >< … yeah… LOL i got my mind in all the mechanics but the actual level layout is like “well, anything is as good as anything else, so… maybe ill just make it a flat plane, obviously not … soo what then??”