Different Low Res Model Looks: xNormal and 3DS Max 2013

Unity Engine
1

Hi there! I finally did “manual” retopology to bring down the polycount of a test game model that I made instead of relying on Zbrush’s automatic retopology. Although I seem to have succeeded in doing so (I made a low res 1K model from a 500K one), I have encountered a strange problem. When I use xNormal to view my new low res model with color map and a normal map, it looks just as good as the original super high res model:

The picture shows that I’m using the low res version and by using a color/texture map and a normal map, I got a pretty good result that looks exactly like the super high res 500K model. I made sure that in xNormal, I removed the super high res mesh and only included the low res version that I worked on as well as the two maps.

Here’s what the same model looks like in 3DS Max 2013, it isn’t pretty at all!:

In the Materials window, I used Standard. Then I placed a Bitmap containing my color/texture map and connected it to the Diffuse part of Standard. Next, I placed another Bitmap but this time with the normal map. I placed a Normal Bump and connected the Bitmap with normal map to its Normal. With those two connected, I then connected the Normal Bump’s Normal to the Bump in Standard. After that, I double clicked on Standard’s Bump and then I chose Maps in the window. I found Bump it in but it only had a value of 30 so I put it to 100. After that, I rendered a picture of the model.

Why is it that my model looks a lot better in xNormal’s viewer and it looks horrible in 3DS Max 2013? Am I missing something?

Here’s the process of what I did to make a low res model. Maybe you’ll see something that I did wrong which resulted in 3DS Max’s ugly model:

Creating a High Res Model:

  1. Sculpted a simple monster in Zbrush 4.
  2. Used Polypaint to paint it.
  3. Used Decimation Master to bring down the model’s polycount from 1 million to just around 500K.
  4. Exported the finished model as an OBJ file.

Creating a Low Res Model:

  1. Retopologized High Res Model in Topogun 2.
  2. Exported Low Res Model as OBJ file.

Creating UV Map:

  1. Imported Low Res Model into 3DS Max 2013.
  2. Used Unwrap UVW on it.
  3. Chose to Flatten the map.
  4. Picked Pack UV.
  5. Exported the Low Res Model with UV as another OBJ file.

Baking High Res Details to Low Res Model:

  1. Loaded the High Res Model into Topogun 2.
  2. Loaded the Low Res Model with UV into Topogun 2.
  3. Chose Bake and adjusted the “cage” so that the Low Res Model would cover the High Res Model.
  4. Chose to make a Normal Map.
  5. Chose to make a Color/Texture Map using vector color (or whatever it’s called).
  6. Clicked to start the baking process and waited until it’s done.
  7. There is now a color/texture map and a normal map in the folder where the monster is.

Viewing Low Res Model in xNormal:

  1. Loaded Low Res Model with UV in the low res mesh section of xNormal.
  2. Chose the Low Res Model with UV in the 3D viewer section.
  3. Loaded the color/texture map.
  4. Loaded the normal map.
  5. Clicked Launch Viewer to see my pretty model.

Viewing Low Res Model in 3DS Max 2013:

  1. Imported the Low Res Model with UV.
  2. Assigned the color/texture map to Bitmap which connected to Standard->Diffuse.
  3. Assigned the normal map to Bitmap which connected to Normal Bump->Normal which connected to Standard->Bump.
  4. Double clicked on Bump (from Standard->Bump) and clicked Maps.
  5. Changed the Bump value from 30 to 100.
  6. Rendered a picture and found a disappointing ugly result.

Anyway, thanks in advance whoever could tell me what’s going on and how to fix it. I’d really love it if 3DS Max 2013 can render my model the way xNormal shows it. :smile:

2

You are missing something, you need to setup your viewport and setup your shader network correctly, it may still not look quite as good as xnormals viewer because they are showing you the bump specificly.

Anyway, make sure your using hardware shading with maps. Make sure you refresh your shaders so it loads those maps. Then make sure you have your normal map, spec map, diffuse map all setup on that shader, then make sure you have lighting in your scene, and not simply a skylight. Then you might get something looking good.

3

Xnormal the Y axis (I believe green) in a normal map isn’t identicle to in 3ds Max, if you go to normal map and click the little box, theres an option for X Y Z, play around with the Y for a moment to see what result you get then.

As for rendering, may I ask why you wish to ‘render’ your game asset in 3ds Max, the render option is a little funky when it comes to normal maps, you may have to render in mental ray or software (I can’t remember off the top of my head).

However if you’re trying for a solid look I’d recommend using the following game shader for 3ds max
http://viewportshader.com, it should look fantastic in your viewport, and with the correct render settings, look good in the render viewport too.

I’d also like to add that you might wish to use a spec map too, a normal map is nothing without a specmap usually, the specmap really brings out the normal strengths.
Along with this I’d strongly advise different lighting in your scene, 3 point lighting should work fine, the shader I’ve linked uses the lights brilliantly if you plug them into it.

4

Edit: Oh and thanks Squall, I check those out :slight_smile:

Thanks for the suggestion! Unfortunately I can’t seem to find the hardware shading with maps option. The closest I found was “Realistic Materials with Maps” which can be seen if you click on the viewport’s choices → Materials. I’m still trying to look for a solution to achieve the same look that xNormal gives my model :frowning:

Thanks again :slight_smile:

5

Hardware rendering is in the render dialogue itself, it’s nothing to do with materials or the object.
I haven’t used Max for a while so I can’t direct you but if you google it you might find something that could help, sorry.

6

I went back into xNormal and this time, I tried to adjust the Light Specular Color and from white, I turned it into black. The result was the ugly monster that I kept seeing on 3DS Max! You’re right, the specular light does make a difference! It’s a first time for me to witness the change though because all of the training materials I’ve been studying haven’t touched upon specular maps yet (the DigiTutor vids I’ve watched only taught me about the process that I wrote about above).

I guess it’s time for me to learn about how to use specular light/maps and get that nice “full” character effect that I’ve been wanting and not some pale cardboard box thing :smile:

Although I’ll be doing my research now, I’d still appreciate advice from you guys on the matter of specular light/maps just to speed up my learning process, thanks :smile:

7

No problem, happy to help. Spec maps are really useful for definiting a lot in a 3d model, even if you’ve the most amazing normal maps, if you sit an object in a full lit room with zero shadows, they’re going to look flat as hell. Spec maps compliment things big time.

8

Wow, I think my problem has been solved again :smile:

I made a specular map by putting my texture map in Photoshop and then adjusting the hue and saturation (-180, -65 according to one of the tutorials I happened to find). After that, I went back into 3DS Max 2013 and applied the 3 maps to my little monster. I then exported it as an FBX file. Inside Unity, I imported my monster’s FBX file and found the Shader section. Instead of Bumped Diffuse, I chose Bumped Specular.

I’m pretty happy with the result because this is the one that I wanted :smile:

This is what it looked like with only Bumped Diffuse, and I don’t like it:

The difference is pretty big in my view. Without specular, it really does look dull like a cheap toy that a kid got from a McDonald’s Happy Meal. With specular, at least it’s able to show the little details that I sculpted on this experimental monster just like how it originally looks like in Zbrush.

I guess my next course of action is to dig deeper into the subject of Shaders, something that I haven’t really spent any time on in any of my previous studies.

Thanks again to everyone who gave me their time in helping me out with the trouble I had! You were able to point me in the right direction and produce a solution within a day. Now I won’t have to fear that my Zbrush models won’t have a beautiful transition into Unity lol :smile:

9

I experimented a bit with Substance Designer, something that I’ve always wanted to try. Now that I’m actually learning about all sorts of maps and things, I’ve been doing them manually one by one. With Substance Designer, I was able to mix and match a little more and try out things easily than if I had to do them using different applications. I was honestly surprised and happy with how easily Substance Designer works!

I took the maps of my little experimental monster and plugged them into Substance Designer. After reading the help file’s tutorial and following them, I quickly learned how to make things happen. With the initial texture map, I mixed it with one of the dirt noises that I found in Substance Designer and “blended” it with my monster. I’m just glad that it also has a 3D viewer where I was able to load my little monster to see how the changes I made looked like.

The only thing I probably didn’t like about Substance Designer was the part where it created a normal map using my initial texture map (I was following the tutorial as an experiment even though I already have made a normal map using Topogun a few nights ago). The normal map produced didn’t have the effect that the original normal map from Topogun has. The monster seemed to lack detail, even with the help of a little specular map adjustments. I quickly re-used my original normal map because I like it more.

I saved the substance file that I worked on, knowing that it can be loaded in 3DS Max 2013.

As an experiment, I loaded my monster’s original OBJ model (with UV) and then picked “Substance” in the material editor. It was my first attempt so I tried to figure out how it worked. I placed Substance and then added Standard. Fortunately, Substance was very straight to the point and had nodes for Diffuse, Normal, and Specular, so I just connected them to Standard’s Diffuse, Specular Level/Color (those two Speculars whatever they’re called), and Bump. I rendered a picture and here’s what I got:

It’s actually a lot better than what 3DS Max could produce yesterday! I don’t know why 3DS Max yesterday kept giving me that blocky render that you can see in my previous posts above, but when I used Substance as material, I got a pretty picture out of it! I’m pretty happy for now lol :slight_smile: