Do Many Game Designer Even Usually Study The Game Theory?

[computertech]

Study Game Design Theory (Ex. University Interactive Art And Design Theory)
I sort of went into a interactive art and design university class that is teaching the game ideas and the design theory. But, I am a major in computer science. The interactive art and design school is mostly teaching the scientific way of design, word terms, theory, research, and readings that is coming from the other professor.
I already know that most game designer job that only does the game idea is a very hard and a very rare job to get. But, one of my professor did got a game designer job that his task is to only to design a game idea, because he got a interactive art and design PHD. My professor told me that only a big game company hires a idea person. Which the big game company will only hire a highly knowledgable person like my professor with a PHD. So, I won’t be a idea person, because I already know that the many interactive art and design student with a undergraduate degree will mostly not get a job that easily.
It is sad that some of the game design school that only teaches about a game idea will not get a game designer job that easily. Also, some of the interactive art and design student with a undergraduate degree will have a hard time finding a game job.
Examples of a university game interactive art and design theory:
– Games needs to have difficulty to be fun by Juul= Fear of Failing? The Many Meanings of Difficulty in Video Games
– Games needs to have a fantasy remediation by Bolter Grusin=
Martin Irvine, Georgetown University
– Games needs to have elements of play like… human naturally needs to have a freedom to have a break playing a game by Homo=
http://art.yale.edu/file_columns/0000/1474/homo_ludens_johan_huizinga_routledge_1949_.pdf
– Classification of Games needs to have competition, chances, simulation, or illusion by Roger=
http://cs.uvm.edu/~rsnapp/teaching/cs32/homework/man_play_and_games_chapters_1_and_2.pdf

-OR-

Making Games As You Are Designing
I was thinking the most practical way of designing a game is to make games. I think the Extra Credits game design videos is the most practical way of designing a game instead of a theory way. Maybe, is because some of the Extra Credits youtube maker do actually make games. The Extra Credits design videos usually does have the technical design skills instead of designing a theory base.
I believe making more games is much more easier to get a game designer job inside a small game company. But, I think some of this kind of game designer will not understand a very deep design theory.
Examples of a practical development and thinking practices:
– Game Balancing

Power Creep in Hearthstone - What It Teaches Us About Games - Extra Credits

-OR-

You Need Both, Make Games + Theory.
“My main argument is that I think a lot of the game designer does not know and read the game design theory books.”

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Thx, @samnarain for summarizing my question that is more understandable. Here is basically my question.

@""

• Is it useful for students to adopt published theories - or - should they choose the pragmatic approach by creating games themselves? The goal for the students should be to maximize their success rate to have a career as professional game designer.

• Why do so many people not use existing theories, yet are the requirements for professional game designers often include knowledge about existing theories?

[computertech]

Seriously, I thought it is interesting that not a lot of designer do study video game design theory from books.

[LaneFox]

I think you should major in English because it’s difficult to understand what your post is about. Maybe you can simplify and organize your post.

[computertech]

@LaneFox

I think you should major in English because it’s difficult to understand what your post is about. Maybe you can simplify and organize your post.

Ok Thx, I just change a little bit of my perspective, wordings, and my poll question to make more sense now. Now, my main point I think a lot of the game designer does not really know many of the game design theory.

[computertech]

Man, is my English still that bad or my post was too long? Because, I am begining to think every body hates to study game design theory that is been already been made like from the school, universities, or books. Because, I did not really recieve any replies yet. Maybe, you guys rather enjoy making a game as you are designing a game, or just having a creative self taught with a design technic instead of having to do any studying at all that comes from else where. I think it is true, because your design forum seems to be learning in that way only.

[EternalAmbiguity]

Going to school can’t teach you experience. But gaining experience DOES teach you how to do something.

There’s a reason most (technical) jobs are seeking people with experience, not simply people with degrees.

[computertech]

@EternalAmbiguity

Going to school can’t teach you experience. But gaining experience DOES teach you how to do something.

There’s a reason most (technical) jobs are seeking people with experience, not simply people with degrees

Sorry, to be unclear. I do not meant only from going to school. I also meant reading from the free resourses from the professor that you can get from online like from my forum post about the theory examples.
I was always talking about not much people do research on the other people’s game theory. But, they only make their games as they are designing.

[EternalAmbiguity]

Well, I couldn’t say how “valuable” these resources are. And I suppose when going to school for game development, you probably actually make games (I have no idea, that’s just an assumption). So in that case you would be gaining experience.

So all things being equal, I’m pretty sure most people would rather go to school and learn about making a game as they’re making theirs.

But all things are not equal. Time spent learning all these other things (not all of it related) is time away from your game. Money spent on college is money not spent on your game.

[computertech]

@EternalAmbiguity

Time spent learning all these other things (not all of it related) is time away from your game.

Maybe, you are right. I guess we should all only learn game design theory from books or from the free online resources instead of paying for school.
But, still not many people does any learning from a free game design theory resources. But, instead they only make a game as they are designing. I think is because studing the theory is non manatory for most people in a game design.

[EternalAmbiguity]

@computertech

Maybe, you are right. I guess we should all only learn game design theory from books or from the free online resources instead of paying for school. But, still not many people does any learning from a free game design theory resources. But, instead they only make a game as they are designing. I think is because studing the theory is non manatory for most people in a game design.

I don’t think there’s any “we should only do this.” It’s up to each person to decide how to most effectively use their time.

[Kiwasi]

Game design theory is still super new. The oldest examples of ‘good design’ are only about 30 years old. That means the study of game design is younger then many people working in the industry. While the theory is useful, its still very unsettled as to what the theory actually is. Studying it is useful, but breaking the rules is often just as relevant as following them.

Game designers do benefit heavily from studying. Many game designers study people and how they interact with the world. Others study physics or art, history or mathematics, philosophy or engineering. Develop a set of obsessions outside of games, and use them to inform you game designs. This will add colour and life to your game that you won’t be able to get from the simple study of games

For some concrete examples

• Mass Effect pulls from old science fiction and philosophy ideas
• Portal pulls from a general love of physics
• Kerball pulls from an obsession with all things space related
• Minecraft pulls from a love of building things
• Pond Wars pulls from an obsession with waves and water physics

And so on.

[system]

Game theory and game design theory are not the same thing.

[samnarain]

@LaneFox

I think you should major in English because it’s difficult to understand what your post is about. Maybe you can simplify and organize your post.

That remark about “to take a major in english” is something you could’ve had omitted. Since you opened the door for personal cheap shots, I’ll add one just for you.

Game theory and game design theory are not the same thing.

Excellent addition to this post!

@computertech

Man, is my English still that bad or my post was too long?

I’ve seen worse, but you could’ve asked your question more clearly.

@computertech

Because, I am begining to think every body hates to study game design theory that is been already been made like from the school, universities, or books.

Well, you are drawing that conclusion over an industry, a community and some other involved parties. The information that backs your conclusion are surely not from a credible source included in your post. Unacceptable sources are for example popular YouTube video “claims” or some rough biased, opinionated article.

So, until you can provide such sources, I’ve no reasonable information to agree or disagree with your statement.

@computertech

I was always talking about not much people do research on the other people’s game theory. But, they only make their games as they are designing.

You are quite mistaken. The amount of research required to create a good (quality) and successful (market value) game is often the biggest time consumer. The amount studied on theories, depends on the scope of a project (and its added value to the project). Many game designers use post-mortem information and eat “Game Design” theories as breakfast. Just to find the applicability of theory to convert knowledge to their use cases.

“Game Theory” have added value for designers, who work on bigger budget projects, as they are have to provide the higher level design which is required to implement complex logic inside a game. But, certainly this not exclusive to big budgets only; there are many indie developers operating as one-man-armies, who definitely use Game Theory to make for example, complex mobile puzzle games or insight tools.

@computertech

It is sad that some of the game design school that only teaches about a game idea will not get a game designer job that easily.

Being a game designer requires more than reading some books, attending some lectures and social drinks. You have to do a lot to get your dream job. If your statement is true, I find it sad that most people don’t get that part or that such a school apparently exists to exploit such people.

To finish up and I will answer your question:

In order to make a game, you need some parts of your brain to function. Everything else adds to the “quality” of the game (remember that adding a negative value decreases the quality). Including theories. Someone who does game design, could do without, but would certainly investigate existing and new theories to expand their knowledge.

[Kiwasi]

@samnarain

That remark about “to take a major in english” is something you could’ve had omitted. Since you opened the door for personal cheap shots, I’ll add one just for you.

LaneFox actually raised a very good point, being able to communicate an idea is a very important skill. Many technical folk are halted in their progress by a lack of soft skills.

The OP is a bit of a mess. I’m not sure what question is being asked, or what they want to discuss.

[samnarain]

@Kiwasi

The OP is a bit of a mess. I’m not sure what question is being asked, or what they want to discuss.

It is not “one” question, and even if it would be in perfect english, they would be still confusing for some people, as a lot of assumptions are made from a cultural perspective. Sadly, some people do not understand the motivation of these questions, as they have little experience with other cultures.

Basically, translated into something those people “could” understand:

• Is it useful for students to adopt published theories - or - should they choose the pragmatic approach by creating games themselves? The goal for the students should be to maximize their success rate to have a career as professional game designer.

• Why do so many people not use existing theories, yet are the requirements for professional game designers often include knowledge about existing theories?

[computertech]

@samnarain

Basically, translated into something those people “could” understand:

• Is it useful for students to adopt published theories - or - should they choose the pragmatic approach by creating games themselves? The goal for the students should be to maximize their success rate to have a career as professional game designer.

• Why do so many people not use existing theories, yet are the requirements for professional game designers often include knowledge about existing theories?

Thx, for so much. I think I should sometimes think simpler and write simpler like you just did now.

[samnarain]

@computertech

Thx, for so much. I think I should sometimes think simpler and write simpler like you just did now.

We are all here to learn.

[LaneFox]

@samnarain

…

It wasn’t a cheap shot or a cultural misunderstanding. Blunt? Absolutely, but welcome to the real world. If you can’t communicate properly then you have a serious issue in any working environment and no game design course is going to make up for that.

[sunandshadow]

Anyone who is 35 or older probably finished college before game design courses existed. I would have taken them if they had been offered, but instead I got similar classes about the theory of fiction, narrative, audience psychology, screenwriting, and that kind of thing.

[Ryiah]

@computertech

Man, is my English still that bad or my post was too long?

Your English is fine. You mostly need to work on formatting. A jumble of text is always harder to read. An easy approach to this is simply to insert some additional spacing between paragraphs and keep each paragraph to a minimum number of lines.