I wonder if one wants to build somewhat complex websites with custom plugins etc do you need a bsc in computer science? what if you want to create a game with Unity?
What if one wants to build mobile apps for android? would an employer want computer science? or a CIS degree with ability to create software be good enough and you can learn CS Algorithm Design online yourself? what if you learn all the math on your own? would that be enough?
surely in programming the most important part is being dedicated and relevant right?
Actually, I can tell you from being degreed in Mathematics and Computer Science being dedicated and relevant are proven by being degreed. I’ve even had a co-worker that was fired at a business after a couple of years because he had a degree in music rather than a programmer relevant degree. I think it has something to do with avoiding hiring people better suited to being used car salesmen.
For my own part I have a degree in Math and my boss at my first programming job said he hired me because having worked at a bakery while in college, coming in to work at 5am, showed him that I would be reliable. My programming skills were a secondary concern to him.
Where I work now, one of our up and coming developers was hired while he was still in college. He should be finishing up his degree this spring.
So no, you don’t need to have a degree in CS to get a programming job.
However, if you don’t get a degree then you are going to need to spend a lot of time studying on your own if you really want to do well. There’s a lot more to software development than just learning the syntax of a programming language! Once you are comfortable in the language of your choice, try picking up a copy of the book “Algorithms” by Robert Sedgewick. It’s a very well written introduction to the common algorithms used in computer science and it should really help you to start learning to think about programming problems in useful ways.
And of course, spend as much time as you can tinkering and writing programs of your own. The more practice you get, the better you’ll become.
And if you do decide to pursue a degree? Great! While it’s not truly necessary, having a degree in programming or some other technical field can only help you in your job hunting, and you will learn a lot of useful things.
However (if you’re looking for programming job), you need skill level level equivalent or superior to that of the dude with science degree. You’ll have harder time getting (programming) job without proper “papers”, and learning programming by yourself takes time and passion. You’ll probably want a portfolio, too.
Keep in mind that you don’t necessarily need to be a programmer to make games, since you can team up with people (and availability of many free* engines makes things easier). Working with unity would take less programming skill than writing software yourself.
No, you don’t need anything to create a game except a computer and some skills.
Getting a job may be different depending on where you want to work. Some places will look for a Computer Science degree for a programming position though if you have a lot of relevant experience or a portfolio of games you can overcome this.
If you are working on your own indie project then, of course, you don’t need any credentials, and freelancing is usually based on your portfolio and clients won’t care if or where you went to school.
Also, people confuse programming and math. Math skills help, but it’s a small portion of what game programming is about. Most of it is about logic and structure, so you’ll need an analytical mind, sure, but it’s not a math problem.
As for math, if you want to do game programming you are going to need to understand vectors and how to use them. A good textbook and reference for games math is “Mathematics for 3D Game Programming and Computer Graphics” by Eric Lengyel. I highly recommend it if you get serious about the math needed in 3D games. Though to be fair, a lot of what it discusses seems to get done by Unity for you. Still, it never hurts to known how to load your own bullets before you shoot yourself in the foot.
For a fact most businesses have a requirement that you be degreed. 24 years experience and I won’t be talked to at most businesses for an IT job without any appropriate degree. Can you be hired at lower level technical IT jobs that don’t require much training or expertise? Yes. Those jobs pay less. That’s why they had the higher paid developers design the software that way - so businesses could hire lesser skilled technicians using that software at lower salaries. That is ultimately what Unity and all software development is about.
My brother was a baker for 30 years and got me a job I held for one night in college but I was fired from the only baker job I had on the first night because I was left alone with no training and the conveyor line of doughnuts were coming off the frying line too fast for me to gather and box - on a Sunday morning of a home college football game! The owner of the bakery was livid! LOL. If you’ve ever seen the episode of I Love Lucy where Lucy and Ethel fall behind at the chocolate factory you’ll get an ideal.
For games and a lot of tech, usually it will be something like “degree required or equivalent”. Basically meaning your skills should be at least the same level as somebody with a degree is expected to have.
In practice, experience trumps all. I would say roughly half (or less) of our studio has degrees in their given field. A majority do have degrees in something, and many don’t have degrees at all. Several of or engineers are self taught, including some of heads/leads. One of my team’s most experienced engineering leads has a fine arts degree. I have half of an art degree. ;). And we only hire at senior level and above. If you have the experience, a degree doesn’t matter. But without experience it can help you land a job to start building experience.
Hey guys thanks for all the input I just wanted to say that I have completed my Advanced Diploma in Computing thus far and I only need 1 more year to get a “computer information systems Degree Bsc” which I know obviously isn’t computer science but it has a LOT of database programming and well database related stuff in it. But again no maths. I guess this kind of degree gets one a job in database administration.
So what I was thinking was to spend a couple years learning programming on my own, algorithims and stuff aswell as the relevant math fields like discrete math, linear algebra etc and also produce a substantial piece of software on the google app store to show an employer so he or she can decide if I would be worth their time.
I dunno I am just putting it out there, because if I was to do a computer science degree lets face it I would have to go back to high school and at 30 years old thats sorta out of the question right. Cause CS degrees at University of the West Indies require top scores in A levels maths and I don’t even have A levels. All I have is 7 years experience of building websites using joomla and templates and a lot of people skills but thats about it nothing special imo.
^ what is that? thats no real computer science, no math but has plenty programming, and hey atleast it isn’t a music degree right? I can gain entry into that its a “top up” Bsc where it takes 1 year to complete if you have an associate degree or advanced diploma in IT.
So I mean my avenues aren’t that great but I was wondering if getting that comp sci top up and learning a lot of “real” computer science coursework on my own and lots of dedication to creating a real piece of software of worth, if that would give me some kind of opening to find a job or make money somehow in someway.
With that said I can say for a fact that “info tech Caribbean” has told me personally they aren’t interested in degrees for their programming positions but they are interested in what I can build. They told me that they value real world work and experience more than a degree, I am not sure why to be honest. So this was one of the reasons I was thinking I didn’t actually need to do a real hardcore computer science degree.
But instead I could get a algorithm book and some math books related to computer science and learn stuff for my own benefit. People have contacted me already to build apps for them, in this neck of the woods people want apps that basically does the same functions of their website. Kinda like how trinituner.com has an app just like tapatalk but the difference is its free unlike tapatalk.
On this side of the pound people mainly do business related programming there is no research done here or game development. Just a lot of web design with databases from banks to credit unions to all sorts of things.
A portfolio and experience is much more important.
While the degree may help in many regards, and provide some good foundation knowledge and best practices, I would say after portfolio and experience, its the 3rd most important thing.
Hi there, I do have a website design portfolio and I can obtain a app development portfolio aswell, I know the know how to advertise and get jobs locally to develop websites or apps. I have even been contacted in the past to build apps but I said I didn’t do app development because well it is the truth but in recent times I developed a real passion for app development and programming on the whole.
Learning programming has sort of become an addiction to me. I will do my best with a algorithm book, data structures and some maths that I can muster up for my own benefit not sure how useful this plan is going to be but what the heck I gotta try something.
I can’t tell you much, because I’m one of those hobbyists around here that only has an art degree. You’ve gotten a lot of great replies already, but I wanted to add one thing so that those with the proper experience and education can either confirm or refute it: Personally I think acquiring the skills and experience needed to make and release good games is a LOT harder than getting a computer science degree. I base this on the subjectively perceived 99% “drop out rate” between people starting their first game and people releasing indie games of good quality. The hardest part isn’t the math and programming, it’s the “making good games” part. A CS degree won’t magically turn you into kickass gamedesigner because designing games and programming are two different skillsets.
And also you can still end up unemployed even with a degree, if a market is oversaturated.
That might not work out, because you need a PROJECT that is interesting for you and learn while implementing that project. Most likely you’ll lose motivation if you’ll start making project for the sake of learning discrete math and algebra. You need something that will get you fired up.
Not sure what country you’re in, but usually there are education programs for adults (that cover school course), and you can still enroll at the university even if you’re 90 years old. Chances are you won’t qualify for free education and will have to pay (assuming the country provides free education, though).
You can get yourself a tutor, you know.
Either way, you need to think whether you want to be a programmer or if you want to make games - because those occupation require different skill sets.
Degrees are good ways to prove you have a base level of knowledge and commitment. The alternative is a long track record.
Employers hire people to get things done. If you can convince a perspective employer that you can get things done, and then get things done once you get the role, you will be set.
Most programming jobs say “BS required OR equivalent experience”. To be honest at least half(maybe all?) my jobs have said they require a degree and it never seems to come up during the interview and have never had issue landing the job. That is with a long list of experience though, starting out as a newbie today I get the impression it matters more to get your foot in the door.
I can say as someone who does a fair amount of hiring, when I see github links on the resume to projects they are contributing to it almost always boosts my perception of the candidate(if they check out and are actually contributors).
I came from civil engineering background. Have been with game development from 2012, mid. From 2014, I have been serving SoftWindTech Limited at first as a gameplay programmer and then now as shader programmer. All was basically self teaching if you omit somewhat 4 credit hour course on c/c++ back in B.sc. You would be pretty much surprised if you know more specifically of how I came into this field and how I am doing right now.
One of our artist came from textile engineering and doing just fine with his art development, another artist was from computer science and is very good in GC art. One animator is from electrical engineering background. That is just in game department; the others such as robotics, web etc is another story however.
Like others say it’s experience above degrees that matters. I’ve even seen recent job ads where they want people with active GitHub accounts and maybe some apps for app development jobs. They’re in other words more interested in people who can get along with others and know a little programming, than paper-programmers with a stack of diplomas.
[QUOTE="Martin_H, post: 2495605, member: 883812"you can still end up unemployed even with a degree, if a market is oversaturated.[/QUOTE]
That seems to be the case with civil engineers here. Many were even promised a guaranteed position after their education was over, but it didn’t happen. Many angry people looking to change fields now
My case was different. I was offered three times for decent salary, but I was in love with game development and found it hard to leave. Hope I never have to go to the dreaded RCC design books(specially nelson), horrified ETABS etc.
