Don't go out there!

I have seen horrible things. The other game engines… oh god why? I guess I should start at the beginning.

A few weeks ago, I returned from the depths of as nowhere as one can be and having been under a rock for so long, a lot had changed with Unity in my absence. I noticed a new splash screen that in my opinion (probably fact) looks very unprofessional. It seemed to me that Unity had gone down a dark path. Long ago it was stated from Unity themselves that there is no Unity free version, it’s Unity standard and Unity Pro. That was then.

It looked to me like I was going to be forced to shovel out the cash or have my game branded with that unwanted splash screen. So, I left. I decided there had to be another viable alternative to Unity. I felt that Unity finally had become too powerful of a company for its own good.

Esenthel (C++ Variant, Subscription based, roughly $15/m):
I went small at first. I found that over the years Esenthel was still going. It had continued to survive and update in spite of being basically just one guy behind it. I evaluated it and I actually liked a lot about it. Some aspects of it were alien to me, but it had some features I actually liked more than unity. I did a lot of tutorials, but they ran dry after a while and I was still struggling with the work flow of how I put together character classes, character objects and the other scripts that detail the stats and types of the characters. This part was convoluted to me. The tutorials lacked explanations on too many important things. Also, I feared that if anything happened to the creator(s?) of this program, updates would cease forever. Still I wish Esenthel the best of luck. I needed to move on.

Unreal Engine 4: (C++ Variant, Blueprint Visual Scripting, Free to download, 5% royalty):
I felt somewhat at home here. At first everything seemed really nice, in fact too nice. It was fast, beautiful, the world building is great IMO, and the UI was intuitive and nicely laid out. I liked the big bold letters in the editor and the way everything felt solid and well put together. Now I just needed to script something. I opened the first object to see what made it tick, it was a blueprint, a visual node based scripting system. People love this system BTW. I am not one of those people. I hate node scripting, I think it’s cancer. I found limited resources on how to use C++ with Unreal. Their First person tutorial was alright I suppose, but it wasn’t robust enough to really grapple programing with UE4. There should be way more tutorials. The ones I find for C++ usually seem to de-evolve into blueprint tutorials midway. The truth is, it’s hard to use UE4 without blueprint.

Cry Engine 5.x: (C++? C#?, Flowgraph Visual Scripting, 100% free, or pay what you want):
Cryengine which had for so long been considered to be a powerful engine out of reach to anyone less than a grand wizard elite programmer was now trying to make themselves more accessible. The best way to do this? Node based visual scripting I guess? They seem to think that you need artists to program games to make people use your engine? I was greeted with bugs on top of bugs right as I started, but their support was very helpful in resolving them, so I could look past the bugs, the support was a big plus for me. I found working in the editor to be perplexing at first. It doesn’t start a scene with a default camera I guess, just where ever you are in the editor is where you pop in to the editor. There was a lot of confusion about what the best practice was for… everything. Is what I’m doing for the editor or in the game? It was messy to me. I decided to continue my search.

Shiva 3D 1.9.2 : (Lua, C++ I think, $200 for basic, 1K for pro, but you can’t buy it):
These guys are still going, even after their company was liquidated. I have to give them credit, they believe in what they are doing. They have an awkward interface that turns away most prospective users and a poor business model. But, I don’t care about that, I care about the engine and how I will code. Right away I found myself coding in Shiva with this bizarre Lua language. It all felt weird, but it worked. They have a lot of good tutorials and documentation too, but it can be hard to find because their website seems to be in a state of slow change. You can’t just buy a license, you need to request one and if they get back to you they might sell you one I guess. In the meantime you can use the limited free version that lets you export only to web. I could try to work with these guys, but it seems a pain. But, if this is what I need to use then so be it. First, not that I intend to go crawling back to Unity, but let me go back one last time to check their pricing model, I think I forgot to do that, it’s still free and 120/month last time I checked I think…

Unity: (C#, JavaScript Variant, Free, 35/m, 125/m, more):
Wait… they have a new model, 35/m? No stupid splash screen? I guess that’s a reasonable compromise… and I already know Unity very well… When I consider the time it will take to learn a new editor, language etc, and time is money, this option really is the best for me. So, I guess Unity wins, like it always knew that it would. But, still, I warn you all. If Unity continues to grow in power, a day will come when they start to do dumb things and we cannot do anything about it because they control everything in the indie game world. I watched the UE4 guys give a presentation at a college and they were nervous and shaky and they tried to pitch their product, they didn’t used to be that way in the past, it’s because they know they are the small fish now. There is no real competition to Unity when it comes to the Indie market. Yeah, their going to get my money, they win. I give up. All I can hope now is that I don’t get a hot iron to my face for trying to run away.

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Welcome back to the cult. Leaving is pretty challenging. I tried GameMakerStudio for a while, but it didn’t take me long to come back. While Unity has its problems, it does seem to be better then most of the competition.

Just consider yourself fortunate that you missed the Lithium debacle while you were away. Dumb things have happened.

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This is a big part of the reason I try to support various other game dev tools out there. I want there to be alternatives. It is never a good thing to have just one giant company basically owning a field. I mean I have nothing against Unity and they have made something that millions of people love. I just don’t want to see the day where it truly is only Unity and nothing else except part-time open source alternatives. That would be a sad day indeed.

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To be honest, you CAN work without blueprints, but UE4 usually furiously resists that. Using C++ requires fairly high C++ skill, and a lot of diving into code. Majority of tutorials were written by one guy with nickname Rama, last time I checked.

https://wiki.unrealengine.com/First_Person_Shooter_C%2B%2B_Tutorial

There is a course that I would strongly recommend on udemy (https://www.udemy.com/unrealcourse/) that covers the C++ side very well if anyone is interested. It starts from the very beginning on how to use C++ and works its way up. Even though there are portions of the project that use blueprint visual scripting, they explain why it may be a good idea to do it this way (i.e. blueprint nodes that bind input to C++ classes). One nice thing that I like about the creator behind this course is that at one point, code structure ended up being terrible and he goes through and shows you how to refactor and debug using visual studio.

On a side note the guys behind that UE4 course are gearing up to launch one that covers how to make an RPG in Unity that looks pretty promising (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bentristem/your-ideal-rpg-make-a-complete-role-playing-game-i/description).

Game maker studio is fantastic for 2D games, but Unity shouldn’t be counted out for 2D games either. I’ve used both for many years.

You might wanna check out Xenko too.

But yeah, I agree. There’s really no competition to Unity when it comes to indie games. While there may be plenty of other capable engines, there’s nothing that can compare to the size of Unity’s community, resources available and asset store. It really makes all the difference.

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Say it with me. Unity is mother, Unity is father.

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These two (particularly the first one) are really the only reason I came back to the forums recently. There are several people here I sort of feel a connection with (almost like friends that I’ve never actually met). There are some interesting discussions fairly often and some people are actually making games and I enjoy seeing their progress and encouraging them to keep going.

If the same was true… the community size and activity… at the forum of another game dev kit that I preferred I would be there instead.

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Your Expierience reflect mine over the last few years. Tried almost the same set of other engines… and here I am again, working in Unity yet again after abandoning it in the 3.5 days because of its lacking power, and after the 5.0 upgrade because of the mess the engine was in right after the move to 5.x.

my expierience with Esenthel Engine was that the engine really was ahead of its time, giving you a working night/day cycle system, dynamic skybox, cloud shadows, volumetric lighting, Tesselation and Terrain streaming when Unity was still stuck in its 3.x cycle and pretty much struggling to catch up to the top notch engines at the time, and Unreal Engine 4 was most probably still on the drawing board.
Yet even then people were questioning the performance of the engine, the editor was looking dated and was quite quirky, and there was never enough tutorials around to get the hang of the engine.
Still, I loved what the guy had produced. It was a really promising engine that, given time, could have evolved into a real challenger for the big names in the industry… but then I started to realize that the dev priorities of the developer were… weird.
He developed a mobile editor while some bugs in the engine were waiting to be fixed for years. Not saying that not having cloud shadows in a DX11 build was a big thing… but given that they worked fine in a DX9 build, and the DX11 functionalities were one of the big selling points of the engine at the time, I found it hard to believe that the dev wouldn’t just find some time to fix those small bugs instead of working on the most useless feature ever. Who wants to develop games on their mobile phone, or tiny ass tablet screen???
And it didn’t stop there. After a year of similar weird dev priorities, finally the dev started working on revamping the editor. Good call, given the thing, while functional, looked quite dated, lacked quite some functionality, and was just weird at places… but the new editor would cost extra. Well, not the end of the world for the free loaders given that the “upgrade cost” for the editor was not that bad… but I have spent 750 bucks prior to that for limited source access, as I wanted to extend the editor functionality. I had chucked in another 250$ into the “pay for features you want to see developed at a faster pace” scheme of the developer, which, while not particularly a bad idea (crwod funding basically), did tickle some people the wrong way who thought the dev was withholding features behind a paywall. Given that, I wasn’t to amused that I was expected to cough up cash again to get one of the few useful upgrades developed during my 1.5 years of using the engine.

At that point I was ready to move on, and lucky for me, Unity 4 was just out and looking good. I was quite sad to leave Esenthel engine because at its core, it was quite a good engine. Just let down by a dev following more and more weird priorities probably in a struggle to rake in enough cash to survive with his engine. Really, he has my sympathy, and I don’t look back on spending some cash on his engine. At some point I just had to realize his vision for the engine no longer aligned with my needs.

I didn’t move back to Unity without having a quick look at CryEngine though. Really, after struggling a little bit with the dated editor, and running an incredibly buggy example project, I had seen enough. Maybe a little bit unfair to judge so quickly, but I was certain after a quick test run that I wouldn’t work very efficient in this engine. Given that I was happy with the dated editor of Esenthel for 1.5 years, that says something.

After Unity 5.0 destroyed my will to continue working with Unity, and to continue pursue the project I was working on at the time (the new PhysX was completly unusable for my Physics setup carefully tweaked in Unity 4.x), I decided to give Unity a break and look into Unreal Engine 4.
Really, I liked Unreal Engine 4. I like the editor, even though it feels cluttered to me, and I HATE the intrusive tutorial notifications. I like the simplicity of getting good posteffects setup, I like the curves tool that is so useful for roads and rivers. I love the node based material editor.
But all of this couldn’t make me overlook my HATE for blueprint. And my even bigger hate for the guys at epic that decided that blueprint would be their new poster child and whoever didn’t pick up Unreal C++ during the Unreal Engine 3 / UDK days could go and **** off as the tutorials would now cover blueprint front and center. All the books on Unreal I found covered blueprint front and center. And then there was one C++ book for Unreal Engine 4 I found… which was “learning C++ with UE4”. Yeah, very helpful. Lets implement a container class in UE4. Lets skip the more elaborate things like HOW TO SETUP A ****ING PLAYERCONTROLLER IN C++… because we want to teach beginners how to C++, not C++ programmers how to UE4… seldomly been so dissapointed in a book. And mostly, its on me, because I misinterpreted the sales blurp on what this book would teach readers :confused:

I GUESS if I would have sticked to it, searched the web more and gotten into contact with Unreal C++ experts I might have soldiered through at the end. I might have found a love for the engine despite the blueprint clutter everwhere.
Instead I returned yet again to Unity to find that Unity 5.3 wasn’t as unusable anymore as the 5.0 version. And I had to find that with all its faults, Unity still is the best engine for me when it comes to letting me work efficiently without getting in my way.

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There’s also the godot engine. It’s free, opensource, and looks very slick. It’s got some Python variant for scripting so that might not be everyone’s cup of tea. It’s rapidly improving and seem very promising…

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Thanks for the overview @Khyrid I think I’ll stick to Unity now. Haha

Yeah, we think we have it bad here until we go somewhere else and realize how bad bad really can get.

That said if people think Unreal 4 is bad they likely haven’t spent time with Unreal 3. I tried picking up UDK before Unity and it wasn’t intuitive or enjoyable to work with at all. If that wasn’t bad enough you also had to pay 25% royalties. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Their latest release notes “future” section indicates that c# and mono are coming to Godot too.

It’s about a 25mb download and seems pretty solid to me.

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Hello,

While I love Unity, I too looked at other engines and came back to Unity primarily due to the ease of use, and the amount of tutorials, support and the community.

I did see this video put out by Godot which looked really interesting and pretty cool considering it is open source software. It seems they are aiming for Unity developers with their 3.0. In addition, I think competition from Godot is will be a great thing for Unity :slight_smile:

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I’m impressed with all the new features in 3.0, that video was just great. How long did they work on the 3.0 release?

I imagine people who move to Godot would be hobbyists mostly, or let’s say non-paying people. It probably doesn’t matter too much to Unity Technologies if non-paying people leave their product.

I guess most people who pay for Unity are trying to earn money at one point, thus have invested in Unity already (be it money, time, building a code base, etc) which matters to them and it’s harder to move away from Unity at this time.

To me, it also seems Unity Technologies doesn’t really care for competition. It seems they have transcended that phase a couple of years ago and can since then do whatever they want and people still stick to Unity.

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If they “try to catch up” they will always be behind. Imho they should rather focus on having a better toolset for making pixelart retro games, something more efficient than gamemaker but with proper c# scripting. If I ever start working on a 2D pixelart game I’ll take a closer look at the competition because I’m not yet invested in Unity in that area and the 2D forum here seems rather dead.

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Uh, is Godot engine in some kind of trouble unless it acquires new converts each week or something?

It seems to be a trend where there are people mysteriously arriving on unity forums to spread the word or something.

This kind of behavior makes stay the hell away from it.

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Can’t deny it looks rather “shiny” though… That would be because of the bloom.!