Hi there,
I’m a bit stuck, according to the new EU’s DSA, I need to choose whether i’m a trader or not.
Here is the definition who is a trader:
The DSA defines a trader as “any natural person, or any legal person irrespective of whether privately or publicly owned, who is acting, including through any person acting in his or her name or on his or her behalf, for purposes relating to his or her trade, business, craft or profession.” If you have questions about your status as a trader, consult with your legal advisor.
I still doubt it.
Can someone answer if i’m a trader?
I’m an individual, who makes games and sells them over AppStore/GooglePlay.
I’m not selling anything else that does not belong to me.
But i don’t have “my legal advisor”.
I saw, that some people already taking their games off the EU market because of that since you have to publish your home address including your phone number. May be it’s ok for companies, but not ok for individuals.
Oh great EU law hurting the little guy again! And even with the UK having left I think app stores apply the same requirements here.
In any case this is what PO boxes (in UK) or virtual offices are for, even bigger companies use them. It may be a simple box ticking exercise, but sounds like anyone selling on app stores will need an address, tel. & email to show
Specifically this table leaves no doubt: APPLIES TO:
Providers of intermediary services including online platforms
Indirectly: traders on online platforms
A trader on online platforms … well, that’s everyone who publishes apps on stores, and the intermediaries are Apple, Google, Steam, etc.
Unity also has some “legal advice” (FAQ) on that topic:
They also mention DSA compliance requirements on every other Unity Gaming Services documentation page. They also have a notifiation system available but I can’t say whether this is only for UGS or also usable in general.
This is not legal advice, but yes, you are definitely a trader. You sell a “ware”. It doesn’t matter that it’s software.
Nah, the DSA is aimed at large companies.
Pretty much all countries including the manifestation of freedom aka USA requires you to be aware of your status of being a trader because you need a license and that also entails having an address.
Did you know that in Germany you need that even when you just wanna host a website? ( Impressumspflicht )
To clarify why this became an issue: when you log into your appstoreconnect account, there is now a new popup telling you this:
“To submit new apps to the App Store, you need to let us know whether or not you’re a trader. The Digital Services Act in the EU requires Apple to verify and display trader contact information for all traders distributing apps on the App Store in the EU.”
If you choose to identify as a trader, you will be required to upload legal documents confirming your identity, and your name/phone/home address will be published on the App Store for everyone to see.
I did some googling, and in other gamedev communities nobody knows anything for sure, people just make guesses. Because the App Store defined this new requirement to be extremely vague and open to interpretation (maybe intentionally?)
The way it works now: many indie developers with commercial apps (ads or IAP) have identified as “non-traders” on the App Store already, and it seems Apple is perfectly fine with that. Everybody can easily confirm that by checking a few random new apps (any “top 100” ranking, for instance) using one of EU versions of the App Store.
That is, for the time being, Apple does allow you to identify as “non-trader” and publish commercial apps in EU. No guarantee that it won’t cause you any problems in the future, of course.
I do no trading. I sell. Eff a bunch of bureaucrats. Two can play word games if you know UCC. A person is a legally made up entity. I am a Man. Not a human being nor monster as descriptive of a human being/human resource as per Black’s Law dictionary. My work product is of the sweat of my brow and not a skim from a trade of stocks, real estate or other security. I am a producer, not a trader.
If you have some kind of officially registered business, it will be your business address/phone. Otherwise it will be your home address/personal phone.
There is a pretty simple question that you can answer to define your Trader Status for Google Play and App Store:
Do you Earn Professionally from Apps, Games?
In other words, is this activity your Main Source of Income?
If your answer is YES, congratulations — you are a TRADER, and you have to provide your contacts and address to satisfy the rights of consumers in the European Union.
Exactly, plus why even ask to identify as something, if they want to impose a trader status to everyone selling on stores they would just impose all accounts lock until you give away your personal data.
Why ask about it, when the activity is pretty clear, so can have only one interpretation.
The reason why this is a question is because what they do is clearly illegal and want us to verify that we agree first to proceed with it.
In short they are criminals and want to expose our data to the public, which is an illegal activity, but in a lawful way, since we give our consent first.
The heck are you talking about?
The EU just set up a law that shall ensure that consumers who buy a product (and buying an APP is just that) always has an identity to refer to, if they have a problem with the product.
people these days lol. always watching tiktok and oblivious to everything.
you did not learned in school/university when you did the usual political reunions and activism hoping to change the world, that the state is just a group of highway robbers that won the war against other criminal groups? and said group can now enforce laws and collect taxes directly instead of jumping on you when you travel, like in the old days?
this EU thing also depends of the country one lives in because certain countries may not enforce this EU laws like other countries. regardless EU in particular there is not automatically a need to pay for tax advisors because EU has a bunch of agency where you can contact them and ask for clarifications. depending of your location you can even book an appointment and ask them all the questions. so you may get enough answers out of this without paying for someone that may just tell you the same thing as those free options.
Well, forcing us to reveal personal data to the public is criminal, there is no if on this.
It is not consistent with any sense of freedom and rights to privacy and is a complete violation of personal rights and privacy.
Unity has our data already, the consumer is fully protected and we get notification also on any user issue.
I dont see why there is a need for direct contact in this case.
What if this is massively abused and users start stalking us or phone call us every few minutes ? Would you really give your phone and exact home address to anyone and everyone ?
Or have users come to your home to ask questions ?
As i said it is like asking us to commit suicide, would anyone really do it even if was a law created by criminals ?
Also there is a very real direct threat to life when revealing so much information, who knows who will use this info for any purpose.
Sure the consumers should be protected, but not have us all potentially killed for it, there should be protection on both sides.
When selling an app should be just that, we dont offer a 24 hours phone call or house visit service and the geniouses in Europe want to turn app development to such. They are completly disconnected to any sense of reality.
I am not selling anything to the user, Unity or Google does. The consumer can contact Unity, the seller for example and get his protection as you suggest.
Again why should we contact directly when we dont sell ?
Also asking to make a fake business address and phone when we dont use them is not exactly making much sense. How is the consumer protected with your suggestion ?
Not all business have a physical space need, not sure why this should be a requirement
( Impressumspflicht )
lol. always watching tiktok and oblivious to everything.