I created the other thread that got closed. (which is really ridiculous that it was closed). I think the discussion that ensued had merit. It was interesting how people were either on one side of the question of the other. Not many right in the middle. To the point that some were offended because they felt it was impossible.
I asked the question because 10 years ago, I thought it would be totally impossible. But I’m starting to think it’s not impossible. Especially considering the resources that are now available on the Asset store, etc. From models to whole backend solutions.
Another reason I asked the question is I started thinking about the different XPrizes they have for engineering. Thinking about the possibility could produce solutions and insights of other issues. It could offer ideas for other tools that can be made to make it possible.
Please moderators let this vote happen, it could be an insightful discussion.
I say maybe, not really because i am unsure about the workload but because i am uncertain about the scope. Can a proof of concept be done in 30 days? Yeah. Can a full-fledged mmo with a consistent theme, good content and proper scalability be done in 30 days? No. The question cannot be answered without specifying the requirements.
Actually I think the theme of “Fantasy” is good enough. And one of the reasons I left it vague in the first question and here is to challenge the notion that something has to be WOW in order to be an MMORPG. I mean think about it, isn’t that what things like MineCraft challenged?
For example one of the ways I think to accomplish that goal would be to pick a graphical style that would lend itself to completion. That doesn’t mean it would be “crappy” but it could just be different.
In the other thread someone said something to the effect “well it wouldn’t be a good for your portfolio”. That was one of the most interesting responses ever, considering some don’t just make games for their portfolio.
I remember back in the day people used to say it was impossible for a person to create an animated feature film by oneself. Then Bill Plympton happened. Or someone asked the question could a comic book be created in 24 hours…(some crappy at first) but it was no longer impossible.
It’s just funny to me how many people say it is impossible rather than asking: how can it be done?
The poll makes no sense, as you didn’t mention the scale of the MMORPG. If you go for the cheapest approach: allow players to connect to your server and write in a chatbox (in 3D space…) - then yes of course it’s possible…
One time I created a simple mutiplayer online game in one day. It supported two players. Obviously this is not massive. Is 50 massive? Is 1000 massive? Does it have to support 10,000 simultaneous players? What about the role playing element? If you can choose between elf and dwarf, does that make it roleplaying? OR does it have to have 5+ classes with 50+ levels each with 100+ items?
If your redefine MMORPG to be “10 players of two classes with three levels” then I’d say probably you can do it in 30 days. But how can anybody answer this question without having this nailed down first?
Some of the question you ask may no longer be relevant. For example 10 years ago setting up servers for 1,000 concurrent players would have been horrendous, today we have Photon and immediate scalability. Ten years ago it would have been huge task to set up different classes with 100+ items, today we have ROAR engine…
Again it’s interesting how quickly people say “The poll makes no sense” it’s a tough question I’ll give that but no sense…
Excellent point. One question that I used to agonize over is “what does it mean to create a 3D game”?
If I want to be a game creator, what skills do I need?
In other words, what is the “real” “meat” of the game creation?
I no longer think this is an important question, because it just depends on your point of view.
To artists, the real meat of the game creation is the artwork, and they just want to pay a programmer to do the code.
To a programmer, the programming is the real meat of the game creation, and they just want to pay an artist.
Likewise for game mechanic designers, level designers etc.
In 1992, the graphics were so low-res that the art wasn’t such a big deal, but there weren’t any stock engines and performance was key, so the main part of game creation was engine development. Wolfenstein 3D was a great game for its time not because the art or story or gameplay was brilliant, but because the engine was innovative and far better than anything else. Obviously times have changed and going into engine development just because you want to make games doesn’t make sense.
So, to fully answer this poll, we have to also know what it means to “create” an MMORPG.
Since we can use the asset store, does that mean that if we can find a ready-made MMORPG system in the asset store, and all we have to do is also download art assets and plug them in, then the entirety of creating an MMO is just A) downloading the MMORPG framework and B) downloading art and C) plugging the two together? This would be so easy as to make this thread pointless.
I disagree, the poll has sense. The parameters are enough: Fantasy, 3D, MMO, RPG. I even just set the parameter that the first day is defining what those parameters will be.
So you are saying that without someone else fully defining what the game is that it becomes impossible?
Again the original thread before this poll asked the question: How would YOU make a fantasy 3D MMORPG using Unity in 30 days? (capital letters for emphasis).
My intent was so people can get out of their thinking of what is impossible or not. But also the conversation could help identify what tools are easier to use over others.
An example of questions and answers that could emerge:
Is one vendor’s back end solution so easy to use that it could make this a possibility?
Is another vendor’s server solution too hard to use, so their tool is out?
Is there an artist’s models on the Asset store that would be suited for this?
Does MechAnim(or any other tool) make something like this easier?
What existing AI component could be leveraged to make this happen?
Also, my hope would be that some of the vendors themselves would participate in the discussion and or vote. I’m even curious what some Unity people think.
I think it’s an interesting question…of course I’m biased because I created the post.
It really is interesting commentary that the naysayers seem to be the most vocal. Especially since they use a tool that not to long ago would have been considered an impossibility itself.
Do you really want to continue a pointless discussion, if you are not even able to understand what I wrote previously and even twist my words? Look again, I quote myself from the first post with the important phrases in bold →
Unless you roughly define the edges of a “Fantasy 3D MMORPG” (and besides: the sole expressions are not enough), it can either be barely more than a Chatbox-MMO in 3D space or the next WOW-Killer. So what do you expect from your poll? Everyone means something else… which basically means you can conclude and deduct nothing from your poll…which basically means you poll is meaningless.
@Ricks - Maybe the discussion is pointless to you. I can totally see how it would be. Let me rephrase the poll into a question for you: What type of Fantasy 3D MMORPG would you make if you only had 30 days to make it?
You see the point of having a poll or discussion is to see how other people would approach it. Some would take your route and only think it’s possible to make a cheap chatbox and then describe how they would do it. Others would be more ambitious and describe something else, and the discussion would include what they would do and how they would do it. Rather than thinking the negative and thinking it all pointless don’t you think there is something good that could come out of the discussion?
Again it is really surprising how much anger comes through from the one’s who think a discussion is pointless. I mean think about it if you feel that strong just vote and move on, why be so angry? Again I remember a time on these boards when people would dream, discuss things have fun. Now certain one’s get angry to argue FOR impossibility.
Define massive… what part of the game is ‘massive’?
Is it the concurrent player count… the map size… the game length… what is it? because depending on which of those it is, it may or may not be possible.
To me, an MMO is all of those things, and not one of them can be done quickly, even with pre-made assets. Buying from the asset store will only get you so far, and generally, you dont want to be buying models from different modellers, because you end up with an un-matching mishmash of models/textures, which will look horrendously amateur.
huge teams of professionals take years to pull off a proper MMO, so do I honestly believe an MMO can be made in a month. no. a year? maybe (even after a year, its probably gonna be average at best, unless you have a team of professionals working on it)
I suspect the ‘yes’ votes are from trolls or ppl with no idea.
@dingosmoov: I can see what you are interested in, but the poll allows too much room for interpretation. And in the end you don’t know why people voted for “yes” or “no” unless they add a comment.
“What type of Fantasy 3D MMORPG would you make if you only had 30 days to make it?” would have been the right question in the first place. It is a good question btw, but a question like this can’t be answered with a “yes/no” poll.
It would have been clearer and the result much more distinct if you created a poll with ~10 types of MMOs varying in quality and size or dismissed the poll completely by just creating a discussion based on the question above
Then maybe the problem is in how you phrased the question. Myself and others thought you were asking something like “is it possible or is it impossible”, and since an MMORPG is a big project many think it is impossible. So you asked a question and got an answer. But now you have changed the question to “It is clearly possible, so how would you go about doing it?” The new question would definitely lead to better discussion.
The problem that a lot of people have latched on to is that you refuse to define MMORPG. How do we know if it is possible or not if you don’t tell us what you are asking? There has to be a massiveness criteria under which it is too small, and above which it counts as massive. Where is the line? Or did you want us to guess that the point of the thread was for us to discuss that very question?
I like the way you put that last question, and it should be part of the discussion, but maybe what counts as massive is not as important anymore. By most definitions the massive in MMO refers to the amount of concurrent players. With things like Photon server, and other cloud services that much of the scalability barrier has been removed. That is an incredibly huge barrier that is gone. Again back in the day I remember the only possible way to have a 3d engine was to write your own. Is it possible other barriers have been removed but everyone is caught in thinking it’s impossible.
Asking the poll the way I did really does separate two camps. If you look at the poll and think Yes, the next question would be how. For those that answered No, the responses were angry.
An MMORPG is a big project a VERY big project. Writing a 3d engine was an insurmountable barrier then that barrier disappeared.
But addressing the point of defining an 3D MMORPG look at the diversity of the ones that exist that still fit in that category. Some have great graphics, some have great gameplay, some have horrid graphics and gameplay.
While I did vote, I’ve been deliberately avoiding making a post here, as I had already expressed my opinion of this in the previous thread. However, I’d like to step in and back up what everyone else has been saying. You can build the networking skeleton of an MMO in 30 days (though, unless you’re experienced, there’s still a good chance things will crash once you get 1000 people signing in at the same time). However, to build any kind of MMO with actual gameplay will still take you significantly longer.
Assume the length it takes to build any single player game. For EVERY feature that game would have, double or triple the time it takes to develop it for an MMO. Even Minecraft (as that example has been blindly tossed out there already) took significantly longer than 30 days to make. Farmville took longer than 30 days with a team of 15 experienced developers.
You see where we’re going with this? With enough experience, a developer can make impressive strides in 30 days, but all the money and experience in the world will not get you something that would be considered an MMORPG in 30 days.
And you may think that the “naysayers” are being the most vocal here, but believe me, there are plenty of people simply ignoring this thread because they are exhausted from having to explain to newbies how unrealistic an MMO is for an indie (let alone a lone indie) developer.
You’ve never programmed a multiplayer game before, have you.
Here is some criteria to hopefully add to the discussion:
Have at least 4 races that inhabit the game.
No magic in the game only swordplay.
Have male and female characters
Must support 1000 concurrent users
Camera has to be changeable from First Person to Third Person
Have a way to show the health of the player.
Not a newbie, don’t make assumptions. Also at no time did I say one lone indie.
Also in the previous thread I know it’s a crazy question, I may have even mentioned I didn’t think it was possible. But I am really trying to take a look to see if things have changed.
Really, sincerely why so angry? Why do you think it’s the same question you have encountered before.
OH and regarding Minecraft, it was in reference to graphics not coding.
