Feedback on Kickstarter for Oxygen

News & General Discussion
1

Hello,

We are developing a turn based strategy game called oxygen,
and we have just launched a modest Kickstarter campaign to help us finish the project.
and we are looking to raise 800$ via Kickstarter.

We would like your feedback on the project and it’s Kickstarter page.
here is a gameplay video for the project and some screenshots (you will find links to the Kickstarter page below) :

Kickstarter page

IndieDB page

our Webpage

we also have a Unity WIP page that you can follow for updates.

(I am not completely certain if I am posting in the right section, I do not mind shifting the post if it is in the incorrect area)

Thanks. and Help us spread the word if you like the project !

oleomingus
oleomingus(a)gmail.com

2

It looks really cool . I like the rational goal too , we had someone ask for 1.2 mil for their kickstarter last week and it was so unprofessional .

I’ll probably donate 5$ or so .

3

  1. You should detail what the money will be used for. Don’t say it will pay for your time, because that is usually considered your investment in the project. I see you talk about it a little bit (“Why we need your help”), but you spend more time on discussing that you want to pay yourself. This is a turn off for many people - myself included.

  2. The amount of money you’re asking for is low, which is good, but your pitch doesn’t really leave you with a good feeling that getting the funds is the only way you will succeed. $800 is so little money, one might wonder why you don’t just get a credit card, and use that to fund it. This kind of ties into #1.

Otherwise, I think the information about the game you presented is good enough, though it requires some followup. I expect that you will reach your goal regardless.

4

$800 is way too low a figure to be asking for, and the fact that you’re asking for that kind of figure sounds off many alarm bells in my head. I wouldn’t go anywhere near it.

Restricting one of your game modes to backers only is a bit of an issue to me. If you’re going to invest your extremely limited resources into something then, if I were to back it, I’d want it to be something that will help you sell your game. Even if I weren’t thinking of your success, this is a multiplayer game, and those aren’t much use without others players to play with!

I don’t understand the point of view that Kickstarters shouldn’t be used to pay the Kickstartee. How exactly is someone meant to build something cool if they can’t afford to live in some sort of reasonable comfort?

To be honest, if someone is asking for a significant amount of cash and doesn’t explain to me how they’re going to pay themselves and/or their team during the project, that’s an issue to me. If the team’s personal incomes aren’t locked down then that puts the project at serious risk of losing the entire team because, unless they’re already all loaded, it means there’s a significant chance that they’ll need to find income elsewhere, taking valuable time away from the project (which has the roll on effect of making it take longer, which means that remaining team members go longer without solid income and therefore are at higher risk themselves… and so on).

I expect that a kickstartee will pay themselves and/or their team at modest rate, but I expect that they do get paid. If they don’t get paid, I expect to be told why that isn’t a risk.

Simply put, it’s highly unusual to be able to do any kind of significant project of commercial quality without having to pay people. And if someone is pitching to me and doesn’t understand that, chances are there’s a problem.

5

Why?
Not everyone needs a amount beyond the 10K border. I can imagine that $800 is actually a lot in india.

6

Errr… there’s a huge gap between $800 and $10,000. And where did your $10k figure come from anyway?

I know that money goes further in India, but I also know how long it takes to make a game of commercial quality.

On that note, the Kickstarter doesn’t say how you’ll be selling or distributing it.

7

In any business plan that is after investors, it is considered prudent for all stakeholders to share in the risk. There is no risk for the person asking for funds if they are used to pay him - ie, what does it matter to him if it fails? He was paid for that time, after all. At the very least, a persons investment is his time, and preferably much more money. This is not just my thought - it is the thought of just about any investor. Now, the person above is not asking for that much money, and some people aren’t thinking about risk when pledging. But it looks like he would be using it to pay himself to mitigate his own personal risk. That will set off red flags for anyone with common sense.
Paying for equipment, other peoples time, etc, all that is fine, but if you are a single person, asking for money to pay yourself to do something sounds like you don’t believe it will succeed.

8

That was just an example to illustrate my point.

But looking at the average Kickstarter game projects, it seems most of them ask for more than 10k. And sometimes it is very unclear where that money goes. As an example, The Other Brothers people never answered the question why they exactly needed 50k. Only some vague “we need that for licenses and stuff” Which didn’t fit somehow.

So it is kind of weird that people back such projects which asks for huge amounts, but without giving an exact breakdown where the money goes, while a small $800 project is suspicious…

But I agree, some informations here could be clearer as well.

9

I really cant tell from the video what the money is needed for. Maybe because its so low it will get funded anyway

10

It comes down to being pragmatic. If someone lives off their week to week wages it’s not at all practical to expect them to go without it for several months, regardless of what they’re doing. I expect that they’re coming to the table with time and other resources already invested into their idea (e.g.: at the very least having a working prototype when it comes to a game developer). But the time and resources available to someone living on wages and the time and resources that can potentially be gained by taking on investors should be in totally different ballparks.

I certainly agree that risk should be shared by everyone. If I were to bring investors on board with my game project I’d consider it a shared risk, though - even if I got (modestly) paid for my time after investors came on board, I’d be putting an asset which I and others have previously invested hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars into largely in the hands of others, and if I were giving up my day job in order to put more time into it that’s a consideration too (I wouldn’t expect investor-backed game development time to be nearly as nice in the financial department as my current job, which pays quite well).

Remember the “modest” bit for the pay. The idea is to cover the necessities like rent, bills and food so that they aren’t a problem for the engineers/creatives during product development. If those things aren’t covered it’s simply too big a risk. It’s still a risk for them because, if they’re actually good at their jobs, there should be no reason they couldn’t get paid significantly more if they chose to work for an established company. Sure, it’s not the same risk as if they put hundreds of thousands into something up front and then went to a VC to help get it over the line to commercial readiness, but at the same time the money being requested is also much smaller.

11

Love the concept and style. Backed.

12

Wow !

First, Thank you everybody, who posted their feedback on this page.
and thank you zombiegorilla for backing the project !

I will try and answer the questions that have been raised, and act upon some very valid considerations that you have helped bring to our notice :

Why such a small goal ?

three reasons,

  1. we have a very inexpensive pipeline. where we are using free software only (building the game using Unity and sketchup)

  2. we are not looking for funding to start building the game from scratch or to hire help in doing so. we have part of the game already built, and everybody who is working on the game has been working for free. We need help in finishing the game and the money allows us to spend greater time on building the game.

  3. we are building a small and detailed game and while none of us have come to the project with any substantial personal resources we can invest, other than the individual skill sets, So for us, given that this is our first game and we are a very small setup 800 $ is relatively a large and substantial sum.

Where will the money be used ?

As mentioned on Kickstarter, we wish to add several aspects to the game. which will require additional programming, art and asset creation. the money we raise on Kickstarter will let us spend a larger amount of time building the game rather than work on the game while trying to sustain ourselves for the time it will take to develop, and Kickstarter will let us spend time and effort not just on oxygen but also on somewhere.

Since we are developing using sketchup predominantly, we would also like to be able to purchase the professional version (or at least a few modelling plugins for now) and having funds will enable us to try out some experimental live sound recording, to augment the soundscape for the game.

Yes. we will also pay ourselves for our effort. But we are four people, and with Kickstarter fees and equipment costs deducted that amounts to about 80-100 per person. which we do not think is unreasonable for the time we will be spending on the project and the effort that will go into the game's development. Even in India *(which is where most of us are from)* 80-100 amounts to a rather modest sum.

Also, we will be using a part of the funds to create the paper cut textures you see on the tiles in the two player version and we might also be able to get an illustrator interested in the project who will help us with art for the Story mode.

How will the game be released :

The game is a composite of several modes. all of them will be released via digital download only.

  • The two player mode and the single player mode will be available on Desura or our webpage (for an amount as yet undecided)
  • A two player browser version will be available for free (with limited maps)
  • A two player version with all maps, and access to the map editor will be available for about 1 $
  • And a longer experimental Story mode( separate from the one promised on Kickstarter) will also for free.

and we do not think it is unreasonable to provide Kickstarter backers with a unique version of the game. because they will be participant in the risk involved in the game’s development and are therefore being rewarded for the same.

Hope this answers some of the questions raised.

Thank you.

13

So, then, how many development hours does $800 buy you? It’d buy less than a week of my time, which wouldn’t get very much game at all. You may have lower costs, but you’ve also got four team members. You say it comes to about $100 each after other costs, how much time does that actually get from each of you? How much of your own time on top of that will you invest into this? How much time have you already invested into this? How much time do you expect needs to be invested into this, in total, to turn out the result you are aiming for?

Also, I’m not thinking in terms of “reasonable” and “unreasonable”. Yes, it’s perfectly “reasonable” to give special service to your investors. But what’s reasonable as a gesture and what’s best for the success of your project aren’t necessarily the same thing.

14

Thank you for asking that the time factor be clarified. I do suppose time paid for, is relative to person and condition.

We have been working on Oxygen for a little over two months. and have been working on somewhere (our other game) for much longer than that.
throughout this time we have been working off our personal resources and without pay or backing. At this stage in the middle of the development process we are a little stretched resource wise, so an infusion of 800$ at this stage will actually let us continue for at least four months, time enough to bring Oxygen to the level of completion we require it to be at.
Note, we are not asking for living costs here, even the 100$ that go to the individuals are being put into developing the game, Kickstarter is not funding the studio or funding us personally. it is funding our game.

We will complete Oxygen in February, and while work will continue on making the game better or adding maps and support we will shift our focus to other projects including somewhere. Our Kickstarter funds will let us work comfortably till February, and allow us to complete the game.

About the exclusive game version as a reward on Kickstarter, you do have a point. Such a version might be limiting to our overall game launch and even unfair to our larger audience. But we are developing a Story mode (for free and open release), Just not the same one one as on Kickstarter.

Without having the rewards eat into the amount we are trying to raise, we have only our game to offer.
And if we can spend the extra effort to create something unique for backers who are trusting us with their pledges, we would definitely like to do so.
And if in the process we happen to alienate future customers of the game, we will try very hard to provide compatible gaming experience for them as well.

Thank you again, these discussions do help us ascertain the view points of people coming to the project from outside.

15

The sad fact is most people (especially on kickstarter) don’t think living costs are important. They say indie developers need to “sacrifice” and anything over living in extreme poverty is too much.

Going to dinner? Living without roommates? Having car payments? Having a tv? All of these things are seen as luxuries that a game developer shouldn’t have while making their game.

I ran into this attitude a lot. The idea of “give me money so I can sit and work around the clock for barely living costs” is seen as a “self absorbed privileged attitude”. It was kind of strange realizing the public thought this… especially as a professional who could easily find good paying work at a studio.

Basically, when the public hears “indie developer”…they don’t picture an adult or professional… they picture someone just wanting to play and have fun with someone else paying for it.

16

I think you’re missing what people are saying. It’s not that no one believes an independent developer needs to live. It’s all about risk and investment. the investment of the indie wannabe is his time, at the very least.If he isn’t willing to risk his time, then why invest? If there is no risk for him (he’s being paid to develop after all), then what does it matter if it fails? I know we can all say “I wan’t my game to succeed! it wont fail, I won’t let it!”, but if there is no risk, it is way more likely to fail because the developer doesn’t really have any skin in the game. The vast majority of indie games never get completed. Unity has like a million or so registered developers, but there are only hundreds of games released. Think about the odds there - that’s way less than 1 percent success.

17

But the very idea that an indie must “risk his time” puts the project at risk. If he’s going unpaid then how is he supposed to develop? What does he or she do when their available cash runs out? Life will get harder (resulting in productivity loss) and there’s a very good chance that at some point they’ll have to stop developing. Then where’s the project?

People shouldn’t have to justify why they are paying themselves. Potential backers should judge whether or not they’re confident that the project will succeed and whether or not the product or service they are speculatively pre-purchasing is worth the investment from them. If the answers are yes to both of those things then who cares if the developer is eating noodles in their parents’ basement for 6 months or living a normal life?

If a developer can’t plan well enough to cover their own basic securities for the duration of a development then who in their right mind would back it? If they have existing income or are already loaded with cash then it’s fair enough that their living costs form a part of their own investment, but outside of that the very idea of going unpaid as a form of “investment” is simply a romantic and impractical way to increase risk without increasing reward.

18

That actually sounds pretty good. Either living must be significantly cheaper where you guys are than I thought, or you have other forms of income to keep things going, either of which are cool. There’s nothing wrong with paying yourselves, and if doing so is something that helps you get the job done then I personally think you’d be negligent not to do it.

19

Just saying what “is”, not how people would like it to be.

20

But then I am not paying you to live I am paying you to make the game. If your game is good it will sell if not tough luck.