Hello after reading the colaboration fórum I understood a bit more about the game designer role but i continue with some doubts, so I would like to know if you could help me.
My main doubt is if the game designer can do the jobs of a project manager and a producer specially in indie projects?
Because besides being in charge of all design documents and deciding how the game will function, the game designer act as the linking point between the departments so he would be able to define deadlines and calculate estimated times for tasks.
I would also like to ask what would be some work created to other departments by game designers and since they are the ones who think how the game will work is it possible to have a screenwritter in a team if there is already a game designer?
Indie teams seem to include several hats for each member of the team. It is not unusual for the designer to be the project manager as well as other titles. However, that is not the usual role of a designer. The project manager should be the person best at handling the paperwork and managing the team, so someone who is good with people. Producer is a little different, as that is often the people who bring the money.
You can have whatever you want on your team. Look at the people you have and decide who is best at what. Then start looking for folks to fill the holes. Remember, an all volunteer team can be a fantastic bonding experience, but volunteers often do not stick around for long and need to be given tasks. I ran a team of 10 volunteer writers and while some of them were prolific, others had a tough time without hand-holding. Since they are volunteers, you have to be sympathetic and patient. Remember, they are collaborators, not paid workers.
Seriously, I suggest to all new game developers that they work on the game with their primary group, maybe two or three people. Once they have something to show, a nice prototype, some videos, etc., then start looking for outside help. If you bring in people too early, you won’t get the quality you might want and they may not stick around through all the boring beginning processes.
Besides, you have a lot of decisions to make at first and too many hands in the pot can make things too difficult.
I think designers can calculate milestones based off of the estimates given to them by lead or senior artist/programmers, but a designer calculating estimated times for tasks to be completed based on a desired milestone date is a receipt for eventual crunch and missed milestones. Not good.
Teams got to get pretty big before you need a specific role just as a game designer. And it’s not the transition from guy with ideas. In an indie team it’s more likely to be a coder or artist with the aptitude for management and design that gets the role. Not some guy off the street.
Once you have a few years under your belt as a designer you might get picked up specifically for your design skills.
As to the how of estimating, this is mainly done based in expert opinion and previous experience. Coder A always takes twice his estimate. Artist b will only make progress if it’s due tomorrow an so forth.
The way I like to think of it, if you get an artist and a coder, put them in a room together, and say make a game, not only will their be disagreements, they wont understand each other. Its two completely different walks of life. A game designer works in many ways as a conduit between the two.
Really, a game designer must be able, and willing, to do pretty much everything, but they’ll never be a master in a single field.
The definition of a game designer does vary from person to person and the discussion can become quite complicated. What the OP describes as game designer I would rather call a leader or director. The term creative director became more popular in the last few years and I think it is a good title for such a position.
I have to disagree if we speak about the role of any game designer. Quite a high amount of game designers do have little knowledge on programming or art. It has to be some kind of lead in the team which has knowledge of various areas. In small and indie teams it often is the (only one) game designer and that is why this position is often seen as the one in charge.
At movies the director is seen as the mastermind, which on my view is not often the case. But if directors such as Christopher Nolan or James Cameron do the screen writing, have ideas for the artistic style and do some technology related stuff then they are definitely in a leading role. In that case the director is the mastermind of the project.
Game designers are often compared to directors but in my view they are rather screenwriters. The director is the kind of person keeping charge of the project but also is the one who is responsible for its success - so is the producer as well, but we talk on development positions only here.
The art director for instance is responsible for the art department (which can be seen as a sub-project). The AD will estimate and approve tasks, assign and manage artists and provide guidelines for how to work.
Its different to any project who the leader is. There can be more than one as well. In the industry it often is the one with the money or an experienced person in the studio. A huge amount of projects on the forum for instance start with a guy in charge with a vision and no additional knowledge. That’s not the right person. But it does not belong to any position by default.
The point of this post is that I believe the game designer is not the right person. But that does not mean that the right person can’t be the game designer as well.
The definition of a game designer is different in indie and AAA games. Since I am quite sure the OP is an indie developer, then it is perfectly fine to have the game designer as the lead of the project if that person has the capacity to do so. I am a game designer, with a little knowledge in everything. I am a writer, a 3d artist, a texture artist, and while I don’t code myself, I can read code enough to know what it means and I have a pretty good grasp at what is possible and what is just “pie in the sky dreams” when it comes to games. Since we are a small team, I also manage the team, keep a record of our assets and the work done. I make sure the website is up although someone else does moderate. I send out notices to people when needed. I contact asset store developers when we have issues and deal with finding outside tools for the team. I really need two of me.
On an indie team, that is the way it works. We all wear many hats.
I don’t think the OP has visited us since he first posted this thread. My guess is we didn’t really say what he wanted to hear.
Yes, indie teams rarely have someone who is just a game designer. That is all too often “the idea guy”, which is not viewed very fondly in the indie community.
My main role is game designer. However, as I’m an indie developer, I’m also the project manager, creative director, GUI artist, programmer, and writer. I currently work with one other person who does concept art, 3d modelling, texture art, rigging, etc.
In short, indie teams are far too thin and rickety to support someone who is just a game designer.
At the studios I worked the designers were doing scripting/markup for quests/missions. Only a few of the designers actually did systemic mechanics or big picture planning. I think all the designers had at least one tool they knew well enough to actually implement things in the game. The “parkour” designers knew Maya and had special plugins for doing all the markup. The mission designers knew a proprietary scripting language. For instance designers of Skyrim need to know how to author NPC conversations using the construction kit. A designer without some means of implementing things into the game is hardly a designer imo. If an “indie team” has a dedicated designer (which isn’t a bad role for someone to be dedicated to), I’d think the programmers would need to code some custom inspectors/tools so the designer is empowered to actually author content.
Seriously though, there are a lot asset store tools that have allowed me to do more than just design and artwork. I have to leave something for the programmers to do.
I’ve recently been tempted to write a program in which I can visually write and assemble the dialogue for my game then export it to XML. (My dialogue is looking to be rather specific and tricky.)
But… I’m also the programmer for the game, so it may just be a waste of time.
Know what Jonathan Blow (Braid), Will Wright (Sims & Simcity), and Jenova Chen (Flow & Journey) have in common? They gained fame as designers by developing (aka coding). Surprisingly, they all started as solo developers.
I’d call this a ‘system’. And, over time, I’ve learned to be suspicious when I find myself using that word instead of following Jonathan Blow’s advice.
I’ve looked into a lot of tools (chatmapper, dialoguer, etc), but like I said, my dialogue system is rather specific. Even if I were to use them to generate the core XML, I’d still have to go through each file and make changes and additions to do what I need.
I love that talk, and i love jb. But he writes his own engines for crying out loud. Don’t you that’s a bigger waste of time than any system one could ever make?
Even in the big studio world, Game Designer has mixed meanings, that fuzzy definition only gets even more fuzzy as indies put more hats on them, as it were.
Think Jake Solomon (2K Games) vs David Cage (Quantic Dream). Both are ‘Game Designers’, but both fulfil greatly different roles.
Solomon worked on XCOM Enemy Unknown.
Solomon performed more technical work, getting game balance and systems to work as envisioned, even coding prototypes to get it just right. He didn’t have much to do with story or theme though.
Cage worked on Beyond: Two Souls (among others).
Cage ‘directed’ the game, envisioned the story, plot, characters, and made sure the production stayed true to that vision. Performed a more artistic role.
Those 2 completely different roles share some things in common, the jobs done reflect the experience of the person taking the position, they use what they are good at to drive the production. They also both share a vision for the game they want to make. Ultimately, I think this is the main goal of a designer, keep the game going along the route originally intended. What individual tasks are taken to get there, depend on the individual.
Bringing indie into the equation actually just makes this easier, it’s the person in the team who has that vision of what the game should be, and can drive it forward by making sure everyone is on the same page. You also start to see why a designer as a singular role doesn’t really exist in small budget indie teams.
Note this is mostly my opinion, besides the facts about Solomon and Cage, so pinch of salt and all that.
The combo I usually see most often is Designer/Developer, especially in indie teams…
Designer is almost always the initiator of the project, and either has to take one of two main branches after that; either the Designer knows code, so becomes de-facto Lead Developer, or the Designer doesn’t know code, and takes on more of a Director/Admin/Producer role.
I’ve also seen several Designer/Artist combos.
The project manager should be the person best at handling the paperwork and managing the team, so someone who is good with people. Producer is a little different, as that is often the people who bring the money.