I was wondering if there were any solutions available that had some of the following features–
Strong Interface and Abstract support for nodes ( for example, being able to have an abstract Unit on the graph with ports, and switch between derived types to switch functionality in a flow. It did not seem like this was directly possible in UVS, but correct me if I am wrong on that-- )
Derivable graphs and subgraphs ( for reasons like the above scenario, preset data and functionality, etc. Not a deal-breaker if this isn’t available. UVS FlowGraph is a sealed-type, and it also isn’t a direct UnityObject, so some functions can’t be used with it. )
Interchangeability with created SuperUnits ( for example, being able to make a SuperUnit in a graph, and there is a C# equivalent for it that can be modified and reflected into the graph… and vice-versa. I guess this goes into C# generation and parsing, but basically I would like a more open solution that I have more power with )
Strong documentation for all functions ( looking at UVS functions and the lack of direct documentation makes me feel like I am coding in the dark - not a deal breaker if there is little documentation in a proposed solution so long as the code is exposed )
Behavior Tree support ( would be ideal, so I don’t have to invest in multiple solutions )
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I just want to make sure I invest towards the right Assets for my needs. I’ve really tried to give UVS a chance, but it feels quite awkward to work with it in its current state. Maybe it is just a me problem, but I would like to try out a more comfortable solution.
I apologize if this seems like I’m being dismissive of UVS. I want to make it clear that I am keeping my eyes on UVS! I am very hopeful for improvements, and I’ll keep checking out videos to see if I can find alternative workflows to suit my needs… but until then, I really wouldn’t mind trying out something a bit more flexible!
I’m in the middle of doing that as a fallback, but I’d prefer to just pay for a solution that has the features I want.
I’ve looked over the ones available, and it seems like uNode is going to be the closest thing to what I want because it treats the Visual Scripting like a near-direct 1:1 of how C# scripts and functions are used, which is more intuitive to me than trying to mess around with other tools that try to hide functionality.
I was hoping to get some input from other people for the other products, but it seems like VS is an acquired taste amongst Unity developers (?), even though I believe it is an excellent tool for specific use-cases.
Edit: I also realized that some of what I requested didn’t take into account that different VS solutions are fairly different from UVS/Bolt in that they don’t have the exact same thing as Units and SuperUnits (they have nodes and macros, but they are handled differently). And, after taking a step back I realized what I wanted was a solution closest to how I manage my current scripts because then it is easy to convert existing ones to graph-logic, and vice-versa.
Some context at the start would have been nice.
You start talking about abstract nodes, SuperUnits and UVS and I’m like … wut?
And the thread title “Good versus alternative on the Asset Store” … huh??
Took some headscratching …
(U)VS = (Unity) Visual Scripting I suppose.
Anyhow, there’s also NodeGraphProcessor (github) which is built on Unity’s GraphView. Though I must say, it is pretty contrived and I like the xNode visuals better, however I also heard xNode has performance issues, having to render everything on its own rather than being based on Unity’s GraphView.
Lastly, you may want to try out NodeCanvas if you need a readymade but extensible solution.
I’m fairly sure no visual scripting tool for Unity does proper graph inheritance like Blueprints can.
I believe if you double click a custom Flow Canvas node in a graph it will open it in IDE. But I don’t think something like you describe exists in any of the tools.
Docs for 3rd party VS tools are likely worse than what UVS has or on the same level - describes basic custom node implementation. In a lot of cases you have forum and discord access though for more advanced questions.
Flow Canvas integrates with Node Canvas by the same author which has FSM and Behaviour Tree functionality.
Yeah, sorry about that. I quickly realized that the topic title was very minimal.
For context, I was thinking of posting this topic in the UVS section of the forums, but the forum descriptor said that it is meant for UVS-based questions, not VS assets.
I then considered posting the topic in the Asset section of the forums, but that section is meant for advertising Assets, not asking questions about them.
So, I went ahead and made a post here… and forgot to alter the topic title to be more descriptive!!
Edit: Also, that explains a lot!
I had some issues with a memory leak in the Editor, and kept trying to track it down… turned out it was because of xNode example scripts - some were operating off of the GUI and I think generating garbage. I brought my Editor memory usage down from 3-4 GB to 2 GB… I’m sure there’s something else in the Editor, likely string-generation on a GUI (or something else), that I can optimize.
Every time I’ve tried to give uNode a go, it wasn’t stable enough and the C# it generates while sorta human readable often is not performant. I’m also not aware of a single title shipped with uNode.
Flow Canvas/Node Canvas meanwhile has a lot of indie III and AA titles under its belt. They’re proven in production. Even Bolt/UVS can’t stand up to Flow/Node Canvas catalogue.
If you’re looking for a more performant and feature rich version of UVS with cleaner API - Flow Canvas. The workflows between Flow Canvas and UVS are near identical with minor naming differences here and there.
Node Canvas is more of a Playmaker and Behaviour Designer replacement wrapped into a single product and it can combine both concepts. For example, Uncharted AI is FSM that nests behaviour trees. I don’t think any other Unity asset provides that.
So general scripting - Flow Canvas.
Anything AI or if something needs a finite state machine - Node Canvas. I wouldn’t do regular scripting with Node Canvas in the style of Playmaker, it just doesn’t make sense for me to do that with a state machine, but it works for a lot of people looking at Playmaker’s success.
EDIT: Flow Canvas does not include FSM by default like UVS does, that’s where Node Canvas fills in.
Unreal Engine Blueprint. If you want a powerful full featured visual scripting system you’re just wasting your time trying to hunt one down for Unity when it already exists for free in Unreal. If you need C# too there’s a plugin for that.
Bolt was the best selling Unity asset on the asset store for quite awhile due to several reasons bust mostly marketing - the original creator is some kind of marketing savant, he did it again with Peek as well. I imagine it was easy to justify acquiring it just based on sales numbers. But sales numbers don’t equal functionality.
Flow Canvas has been around for longer, and always had more features besides the FSM, but its marketing and popularity never approached that of Bolt because it’s not as streamlined, visually doesn’t look as good and FC was/is marketed towards experienced designers rather than non-coding Unity newbies. FC never promised to create games with no code, whereas Bolt went all in on that premise even though it’s not technically true, but it worked and Bolt sold like hotcakes.
Bolt also was way more streamlined than anything else out there and Unity are aiming this tool at non-coders - artists, level designers, etc. Just look at all the advanced features available on FC’s FlowScript Controller, and then look at Bolt/UVS which has nothing on it besides open or create graph buttons. i.e. simple is good in Unity’s eyes. They are not looking to recreate Blueprints in Unity or replace C# as the main scripting language.
And while they are working on what basically is a rewrite of the tool, I don’t expect it to approach the power of Blueprints, they have no vision for Visual Scripting in Unity. They will recreate Bolt 1 and then fix the most glaring issues of it, then continue to incrementally improve it just like any other package.
It truly was amazing. I still have early alpha releases lying around, it was a pleasure to work with and most importantly it scaled both in maintainable project architecture and runtime performance. And it fixed most if not all of Bolt 1/UVS problems that persist today. Unity even released the first beta version for it before killing it.
It’s not clear why to this day and there was a lot of backlash. I think Unity simply couldn’t finish it in time for 2021.1 release when higherups requested engine integrated VS to be shipped with the engine and it was also deemed too “programmer centric” which I guess was aimed at the class structure as opposed to the free form mess that is Bolt 1. The structure is what enabled the tool to scale so “programmer centric” is what we actually need, but Unity say it’s too complex for designers while ignoring the existence of Blueprints entirely. They are not learning from Blueprints, they’re disregarding it for some reason.
UVS hasn’t really seen any real improvement under Unity ownership. It’s been two years… And before the rebrand Bolt 1 was stuck in maintenance mode for two years while Bolt 2 was developed. So UVS is essentially a Bolt 1 reskin from 2018.
The single biggest improvement to UVS was done by a solo developer who created Node Finder and released it for free on the asset store. A multibillion company beaten by a dude who is passionate about scaling UVS so he can gamedev with his wife.
