well since I’m not old enough to get a job I guess It’s just working lol :P. unless i’m not getting monetary gain from my project then it is free time.
Great thread. I am a filmmaker, turned game dev high-end hobbyist.
I have funded it all myself, and have been able to convince a great programmer that I have good ideas and strong design.
The two of us head forward in the direction of belief of what games can do, hopefully to make the world a better place through gameplay.
It is those ideologies and sweat-equity that hopefully drive us to a place of sustainability and eventually success.
Nothing comes easy, but doing what you love with good intents is what it is all about. Rant over.
Sounds awesome! I’m always delighted to hear from people that consider games a form of communication and are willing to use it in a life-supporting manner! In the end, that’s the only real responsibility we have: Leave the world a better place than when we came!
Oh man, don’t get him started on that argument again.
Time is a measure of passing moments. This is worthless to purchase goods and services.
Money is a material usually printed on paper or coins, to represent rare valuables such as gold. It may be exchanged for goods and services.
How about we tell a disabled veteran who can’t get out of bed more than 1 hour a day, that he can turn his 23 hours of free time into money, because time is money. Solution? Go to McDonalds and ask to work 161 hours a work. I’m sure they’d LOVE to pay anyone who requests it all that overtime pay, no questions asked. After all, time is magically somehow money, despite their two drastic different definitions.
They are not the same thing, and it is very immature to be injecting your propaganda into this thread in an attempt to derail it to become one of those horrid “Time = Money!” debates we have seen on the forum before.
Please, no more of this nonsense, in any thread. Not only because you’re entirely wrong, but because it’s a pointless argument because you’ll never change your mind.
I have stayed quiet with you constantly making these posts in various threads, often erupting in massive arguments (I believe people have been banned or left the forums because of this argument). I am sick of the constant injection of this belief into any thread you can get your hands on. This isn’t the first, second, or even third time it randomly pops up as a subject, completely off-topic.
Awesome! Monthly subscriptions to model sites? Like which ones?
I’m always looking for more resources.
Thanks!
and again Emergence is going to argue…bah. + use finally the “Multi-quote” button!
I’m happy to try and help people realise that if they are selling a product, they are working for it. It is no longer classisfied as free time. It depends on your definition of free time. My definition of free time is spending that with family or playing a game. Perhaps taking someone out to dinner.
Are you planning to sell your game? if so then I’m amazed you’re doing it purely for pleasure too, because finishing a game is anything but pleasure. Give it a try. In my case if I make a game purely for pleasure it is unlikely it will get finished.
Well they shouldn’t be abusive then. Discussion can be intellectual.
It’s probably the third mention of it in passing per thread. It’s hardly excessive, but you’re welcome to count.
edit: I suspect the real misunderstanding and disagreement stems from the fact people aren’t realising they’re at work when its intended for sale. People are only seeing the free part of it and assuming that I’m even talking about them when its not intended for sale. I am talking about “people using their SPARE time to create a game for the purposes of sale” - this isn’t the same as “LEISURE time”, and spare time can be used for a second job, therefore the crux of the argument, pointless though it may be 
Ermmmm welll exweeese me…
In my youth, I was disabled as a result of being blown up while attempting to defuse a bomb in the military in active service and I couldn’t get out of bed at all for 2 years (so I kind of object to your example as I doubt you have any real; understanding of what it is really like to be a disabled veteran) however… that didn’t stop me using my “Time” to make “Money” whilst I was lying in my bed remotely contracting for a company that had a use for some of my knowledge… I turned that time into an annual salary in excess of $75k a year, so if were talking about being immature in equating time to money then I really am not sure what planet you are on.
The ONLY way you get money by NOT investing time is to inherit it. Even a thief has to spend the time doing the crime to get the goods and then transfer that to Money.
Time = Money IS an accurate way of representing that.
The Time you spend on playing with building games “Could” be spent out in the real world earning money.
If you wish, like I do to spend that time playing at building games, that is my choice, but it IS a potential time for earning Money that I am abandoning.
Whilst the actual cost, and possibly even the percieved cost of that time spent itself is zero, the time also has a cost earning capability which if I was to accurately portray in a CBA and determine the full ROI of my project, should be included for accurate purposes.
What I can tell you is that whether or not you believe in Time = Money, that by setting up a company and “paying” yourself for the time you worked on it as a salary and absorbing that cost, then you can get a tax break, and so therefore every hour you spend of your “free” time, then those that understand the premise are actually getting paid for it.
I think this is the most relevant topic it has been discussed in… how much does an indie fund their project… the answer… with every hour god sent that I can get, which I get paid for as a tax rebate because even the taxman understands that Time = Money.
Regards
Graham
I’m not one that is very active in commenting on this forum. But I felt compelled to agree to this:
Well for me so far i put $ 1200 on buy a mac and unity IOS basic, i am about to finish my first game i started to work on the second one, the first game toke a year alone on the making .
The textures, models, scripts music, sound FX, website and Youtube Channel,i and cant tell so far is being worth Unity make game design a delight on my case and do not regret the money invested at all.
Without wanting to go too far into my own personal circumstances i am part of a subset of people who dont work, cant work and are not particularly well supported by their government, but do have amazing support from family and friends and are luckily well connected from previous travails in life
It is possible to make a game with very little money, but it depends on who your friends are and as said above, it depends on time, pure time, how much of it you have and how much youre investing in your game, which right now can be between 8 and 15 hours a day, which i do around hanging out with my partner and watching the odd film
I wouldnt say im old but im getting on a bit and ive been doing this a long time and ive a very broad skillset which means going solo is perfectly possible and actually pretty comfortable for me, getting other people involved tends to break my focus, but i will say like above, this is an incredibly time consuming pasttime which you really do need the time FOR and its only thanks to loved ones i have the equipment needed (Buying computers and phones for mobile dev is as stated above, punishing, ill be paying off family for years) to try and make something that can maybe provide me with solid income in future
Love this topic, btw! Yes, I’m self-funded. To add to the running costs statistics, I’d say I’m in the 10-20K range of hard capital investment range, as a hobby with dreams of making it my main business. Not that I haven’t seen any returns on that investment, I’d estimate I"m in the 40-60K returns ballpark, with direct game development/release of my own game being the lowest revenue thus far, and contracting being the highest.
I’ve burned through the usual assortment of spending on game dev, Unity Pro, iOS + upgrades, 3D Coat, Cheetah 3D, couple Macs, iPod, and so on.
I have to say I’m feeling better about the track I’m currently on, business wise (it’s also nice to watch 2 years of code design and development start to come together ). While success can happen overnight, most does NOT. Take my advice, make a plan for your success (just so you know that plan will constantly change and improve as you learn, so don’t get too worried about not getting it right the first time). Oh, and do sign up for casual connect (free magazine, and awesome set of casual game learning resources - business wise).
Cheers,
Galen
The times that money represented gold is a long time ago. But let’s assume that was still the case. Next question: What’s the value of gold? The value of gold ends up being time spent to create something. Your gold is worth nothing if no one is willing to give you their time for it. Even food in the end is created with time. Someone has to take the time to create that food. Or create the machines that create that food. In the end, it’s all time. So, gold = time. And if money = gold, and gold = time, then money = time.
There you have it. Again.
Gold dropped out of the equation a while back. Now, for almost every person (that does work), money is a result of spending time. And, you can save time by spending money to have other people do stuff for you.
Have you considered the possibility that maybe, the problem is not that someone else is not changing their mind but maybe the problem is that most people are not sharing your perspective? Give it try.
Of course, I’ll immediately agree with you that “time = money” is a simplification of reality. The fact is, “hours * secretVariable = euros”. And “secretVariable = what your hours are worth in money”. Some people find ways to make tremendous amounts of money in very little time. Other people spend tremendous amounts of time just to get a little money. That’s why I’m saying Traces of Illumination cost me that specific amount of money. Someone living in another country, or even someone earning money in another profession would have a different amount. But: I’m saying “time = money” … I’m not saying “hours = euros”.
Hopefully that makes it a little easier to understand where I’m coming from. I also like to say “money is a form of energy”, and basically, that energy can be used to “move things in passing moments” or “move things in time”.
You just made a simple idea way too complicated
sigh, it seems we need to revisit this again…
I agree with LazyGunn, way over complicating the issue. The phrase “time is money” has 2 foundations:
- in almost all businesses the single biggest expense is human capital budget, it costs more to find, hire, retain, support, manage, etc… humans than any other expense.
and
- ability to respond to business market demand is measured in speed to market and duration of revenue earning. So the faster you get a product to market that satisfies a market need the more of the market you typically capture and you earn more revenue sooner.
The common thread is: business. If you are making something with the intent of making a profit, then nothing is “free”, volunteer perhaps, but then the value of volunteer time (highly skilled labour in particular) is actually higher to a business venture than the weighted dollar value of the equivalent paid employee - accounting is a little funky, but this is why angel investors and VC investors usually begin to determine how much to invest in a company by calculating a “valuation” of a new company’s worth by examining all the “sweat equity” invested by the founders to date.
People often use the common business phrase, since it’s a tangible easy to understand phrase that recognizes that a human life is finite, and as such each moment in time is “priceless” - non-recoverable, non-renewable resource. Typically, young people argue that time is “free”, and older people (both having dedicated so much life to earning a living, and more aware of the limits on the time they have left) usually trend toward “priceless… don’t waste it”.
Just my thoughts… carry on
Cheers,
Galen
It’s nice that your family supports you and helps you getting started. I can relate to your situation and I wish you the best of success.
I’m in a similiar situation like LazyGunn, though without the family support. I’m also one of the people that can’t work in real life for various health reasons and are getting meager government support. So I can’t really put alot of financial investment in my game projects even though I’d really like to.
And I’d agree with the “Time is Money” equation. If you are a Independent Developer like me without alot of money and are not prepared to spend a lot of time you will not finish your game (no matter how small it is). Spending the time to make a game comes with a lot of sacrifices (often socially) that are definitely too big for some people to make. So I’d tend to say yes the Time could be spent on other things in life that may very well enrich it in more positive ways for your soul and wellbeing and is, therefore, extremely valuable and precious. Money however lets you buy other peoples time more easily, so that your own time can be spent at other things - potentially eliminating the sacrifices you’d need to take without it. But it’s still, in the end, time that’s traded.
My whole development endeavours are based on the time model. I’m pretty much going the hard way. I work with next to nothing except my Time and my Dreams and try to do my best making the games that I want to do and I think are fun, and if it should catch on take the next step till the whole thing gets properly rolling. One step at a time with hard work and a lot of sweat, as well as setbacks. It doesn’t get you rich any time soon (you need to be realistic - maybe even pessimistic - with your expectations when you’re just starting out) but it could work.
I made a few nice contacts after I released my first (non-Unity) game. The game itself did not do all that good on the market, but that’s okay because I seriously did not expect it to be a superseller when it is just a first game. It was a good lesson and having released it gave my intentions more credibility with people now willing to work with me. It brought me together with nice people of different skillsets working with me right now on my next project (on Unity3D) while sacrificing their own time. And I don’t mean little Kiddie ModDB people that want to do the next CoD and drop out unexpectedly all of a sudden, but those kind of people might be worth another topic to discuss at So I think that’s pretty nice and tells me that while my spent Time on the game might have not paid me off financially, it certainly rewarded me by getting one step closer to get it up to a real business some day in the future by giving me new contacts and helpers and in the end allowing me to make a better second game.
Like I said, one step at a time. Would’nt money have had just the same effect? Time IS Money.
All I know is I spend way too much of both…
First attempt at making a game so i would say 100% out of my own hide which thus far has cost me nothing for exception of time and dedication to learning blender and unity. I plan on releasing for xbox so i know ill eventually have to get the pro unity but for now im focusing on making the game with as little money spent as possible, means no team, im doing this solo so far, but got get portfolio filled some how… lol
Well said words of wisdom.