Hey guys I have a qeustion.
Me and my freind have been making and programming this one IOS app for a year and its finally hit the stores! But does that mean we are official?
If not was deos mean we are.
Thanks Unity Community!
Sincerley,
Colin
Hey guys I have a qeustion.
Me and my freind have been making and programming this one IOS app for a year and its finally hit the stores! But does that mean we are official?
If not was deos mean we are.
Thanks Unity Community!
Sincerley,
Colin
If you want to setup a company, you have to register it as one. Laws are different depending on the country. In the UK youâll need to speak to Companies House, have a registered business address (you can pay for a special P.O. Box number for that purpose), inform the Inland Revenue, keep accounts (and make them public each year). Youâll actually be wanting to hire a proper accountant to do your accounts, you can do them yourself but mess up business accounts and you can end up in serious trouble. Pay Companies House each year to remain registered, decide if itâs a limited company (safer for you if it goes tits up), if its a limited company trading as itself, or trading as another name, setup a business account with a bank etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Itâs as difficult and unrewarding as it sounds. I donât know about the US though or other countries.
If youâre making money from an app, you should by law declare that (I think there might be an amount you donât have to until going over, but this is what you need to get professional (expensive) business advice for). If youâre on jobseekers allowance or something, youâve got to sign off that or youâre committing benefit fraud, even if youâre not making much money in your company. Actually even without a company, if youâre selling apps and claiming that without telling them exactly how much youâre making, youâre committing benefit fraud.
Thereâs sooo many things involved with setting up a company properly, and none of it is fun, or really worthwhile much of the time.
These days âcompanyâ especially amongst game developers is a very misunderstood word.
Company is a registered legal entity. 2-3 people working together does not make a company.
Same goes for all these people who claim they have studios. If you have 3 members in your team and each one works in their house, in their room, that does not make a studio.
So please stop trying to look all grown up and claiming that you have a company/studio. Chances are, the most you have is a team.
I usually laugh at people who claim they got a company but in reality itâs just a basement without any official documents or anything.
There is a reason why managers get a good salary, itâs because managing a real company is not an easy job.
As Frank Oz said, that depends greatly on where you are (what country and region).
In Canada and the US there are federal and state/provincial laws about registering a company, applicable taxes, etcâŚ
There are a variety of legal forms, each with benefits and drawbacks. LLC (limited liability companies) are most common to prevent any legal actions or tax issues from affecting the assets of the owner(s) - provided there was no fraud.
Cheers,
Galen
Hey 2dfxman1, this is a couple of times Iâve seen you take this stance on companies. OP please pardon the interruption, but Iâd like to understand why? I know many companies of 2-3 people that do multiple million dollar revenue each year. How is size related to validity of a company?
If you publish a game (free or not) without taking LLC steps, you have exposed your personal assets. If someone (with better funding) claims any part of your work is stolen, copied, unlicensed IP of theirs, etc⌠you can and will face loosing all you own in many countries. Nothing âkidâ about making games in my opinion.
Sometimes. Managers have their âPeter Principalâ as well. There are many tiers of management, depending on company size and needs. Again, Iâm not sure what that has to do with validity of a company.
Just curious,
Galen
Size does not, but if itâs not registered, you can have 100 man team, itâs still not a company.
In the legal business sense, agreed. (Iâm being careful with my wording⌠we have a number of military folks in the forums who have a differenent opinion about what makes a Company (and Iâd rather not have a Platoon drop by to correct my grammar ).
Cheers,
Galen
Ah ,yes. A company of friends. But thatâs an entirely different kind of company that has nothing to do with business.
Studio != Company. If you practice an art, be it game development, web design, freelance painting or anything, you are entitled to call your place of work a studio, regardless of whether or not you are a legally registered entity.
Thatâs true where Studio is concerned and when itâs used correctly. But I can see where 2dfxman1 is coming from in this case, as Studio is often misused to give the impression of being a company by the same people who abuse the use of claiming to have a company.
LEGAL STUFF:
I think the issue here is about the companyâs name, right? If colinter cares about his non-registered company, he should be aware someone else could register under the same companyâs name, heâd have to change the name and logo to something else (making them lose their gained reputation), and thatâd be harmful for his sales! Oh, and not to say theyâd have to hand over their profit to the owners of the REGISTERED company!
By misuse, I assume you mean mis-represent themselves and their company in some way intended on getting something from others they would not otherwise get without creating the perception that they have status/funds/resources/etc⌠beyond their actual state?
You sound like a man whoâs been burned by a Marketing company before
I do understand the concern, but frankly most of the young or naieve who try that arenât able to maintain that kind of deception for long. I had a young fellow (14 at the time) try and represent himself as a company owner interested in partnership around UK distribution a couple of years ago. 1, even via e-mail he couldnât maintain the right âfeelâ of even a young entrepreneur (he quickly fell apart when I insisted on direct contact), and 2, heâs d*mned lucky he didnât try that with some other business people I know. As I calmly explained to the young fellow (after he admitted his actual age) heâs not old enough (even under Brittish law ) to enter into a legally binding contract, leaving his parents open to prosecution if heâd been able to pull off his deception (which would have required finding someone who at least sounds older to handle some of that).
Itâs not the young that bother me. There are others however, who have taken all the steps and are âcompaniesâ and/or âstudiosâ, they are not young. They have a clear intention of abusing eager game dev hopefuls, inexperienced contractors, and others. Some times they are industry professionals (not often), other times they are⌠I believe Iâve heard the term âhollywood hacksâ. Quite credible on the surface. These people I will not defend. In fact, Iâll happily lend my assistance in preventing and/or bring to justice.
Cheers,
Galen
Think Iâve been burned by everything and everyone at least once over the years, except ironically, fire. Unless you count the times Iâve dropped the cherry off the end of a cig in my lap while sitting naked at the computer__*__ (Iâm clothed now, nobody panic!).
And by misuse I mean the way theyâll use it to give the impression theyâre a company, when theyâre not that either. It negatively effects those who use it correctly and just kinda spoils it for everyone (I long ago quit using it because of the misuse of it making genuine use of it appear on the same level) These days you can probably still get away with using Studios if youâre a Matte Artist or of course if youâre a well known legit business. But outside of that you often get placed in the âoh, another modderâ group. Which isnât fair on a lot of people. But just how it seems to have become these days.
I think what bothers me though is it makes those pretending to have companies and all that, it just look really unprofessional, while the opposite is what theyâre attempting to do. If some kid came along, didnât try big himself up, and even if he went and put out something not so good, Iâd have more respect for them and might even help them if I could. If on the other hand some kid on his own or with a friend, put out something really good. Iâd be in awe, and happy to see them not caring about silly things or how people theyâll never meet, sees them, and just doing something they enjoy.
But the types that turn up (here and everywhere), claim to have this company or that studio (in the misused sense) and acting like theyâre Blizzard or EA. I simply canât take them seriously or even give the the time of day. Especially when at the same time theyâre claiming to be all kinds of professional, theyâre off having childish spats with some other children in a dozen different threads (no prizes for guessing which people Iâm now directly referring to lol) and just really bringing down the overall tone.
Guess Iâm concerned that the general level could drop where it starts to attract the wrong types, and becomes no better than a typical modders forum where people care more about pretending they have a company, making a forum on a .info domain before deciding on what theyâre doing, so they can all be admins over the three unlucky members who signed up once but havenât posted since. Than actually creating games and applications and sharing knowledge with each other. Itâs a pretty bleak view, but Iâve seen it happen before in other places, and thereâs not really many other places to get good solid help with Unity than here and the answers section. So Imma get my pitch fork and defend it, lol.
__*__Iâm aware this could be taken a million wrong ways, but I assure you it was during summer and it was very hot, late at night and I was relaxing and yes ok that doesnât help either, ok Iâm just going to shut up instead.
Actually you donât need to change the logo unless it includes companyâs name.
Do they?
As part of legal registration of a company name, no the logo isnât included unless it contains the name. However that doesnât stop anyone (including someone who registers the business name legally) from registering the logo as a registered trademark. You can try and lay claim to a trademark without registering⌠so long as you can prove you were legally operating a business with that logo (which becomes nearly impossible if someone takes the company name.
In US and Canada (Iâd have to look up others), there is also a Federal and State/Provincial registration of a business. So⌠in the crazy world of global game development (including the iTunes store), Federal registration ensures a business name in the country. regional registration leaves your company name perfectly open to anyone else in any other state/province. In theory⌠that also means a company name can be registered legally anywhere, in any company, by any one. So, Apple isnât Apple in different countries unless they register in each place. Domain registration adds weight to an international claim in many cases⌠but the case law is ⌠well⌠messy. Same basic rules apply âthose with the most money and best lawyers ⌠winâ.
Cheers,
Galen
Have we covered freelancing and self employment yet? No reason really, I just felt like over-complicating an already complicated thread.
Comp-li-cat-ed
You ever notice how some words are just funny sounding?
But they canât just take the logo. Logo falls under that art law or something, doesnât it? It would be theft if they took the logo.
Keep in mind that, at least in Canada, you need to take into account TPS/TVH (and also TVQ in Quebec) if your lucrative activities are above 30 000$. Thereâs a ton of things like that to remain aware of when registering and maintaining a company.
If you donât register, accounting remains important but doesnât go very far beyond the scope of your personal accounting. This is because you are personally responsible for all your activities since you âare the companyâ, but under 30k it usually doesnât mean much past a lucrative sideline/hobby unless you -do- intend to formally make business out of it.
Luckily, for software you need to account for very little infrastructure beyond your computer and (if applicable) software licenses, so the investment is reduced. Again this is unless you -are- aiming to build a formal business with employees (you being the first), offices and all, in which case you are better off asking for the services of an accountant and whoever else may help you get started in your area.
Since in your case you have a friend involved, I strongly suggest you two get some form of contract/agreement on paper ASAP so there is no dispute around your published app, regardless of your business status. Donât just trust spoken words when there is money involved, even (and mostly) with a friend or relative. The safeguarding of your relation is worth at least that much precaution, isnât it?
They canât take the logo, as such. 2 branches of law apply, one laws governing the arts, two, trademark laws (and Iâll throw in a 3rd, digital copyright, just to make things interesting). The actual image/logo, in theory (ie. without any other contractual stipulations) belongs to the artist that made it, so long as it is unique enough (original art) to be identified clearly as theirs (created a specific colour, created a new font, etc⌠Logos tend to be simple designs, harder to claim). The business owns the trademark (registering makes it more legal).
But, if you donât register the business, then itâs you personally implying that you have a trademark. Unless you are a registered trades person, then youâll have more difficulty laying claim to a personal trademark.
Now, if someone takes your company name⌠you can bet your Logo is ⌠well⌠next to go (if not already gone).
Digital copyright laws derive from the art protection laws (at least in Canada/US), and usually (case law) tend to be much the same in practice. Unique art, that can be proven to be an original creation, is protected. But the burden of proof that a piece of art is owned, belongs to the artist. SImple logo art, where itâs easy enough to âremakeâ without actually copying anything, is basically unprotected as art. Its more of a trademark caseâŚ
Cheers,
Galen