[IDEA / REQUEST] A more official Unity Character-Creation-System ? What do you think about it ?

News & General Discussion
1

Hi guys,

I’d like to ask and discuss about character customization and the quality and options it offers right now.
From talking with different artists in the past I and many of you might know good work and a high quality costs much money. So for most of us it’s simply not possible to get hands on a AAA quality characters for customization. For environment art we can get our hands on, thanks to all those great environment artists. For monsters or animals we can as well as artists create those plenty. And there often are artists offering really great looking character art as well. But it’s very specialized art not having big customization options and those artists have to make their living and often simply can’t invest the time and risk creating such a bigger system. But there is one issue about this. Sometimes those things don’t match with each other and look too different even if all alone look great. And if you really plan to have some customizable stuff you are very limited right now.

What I have not yet seen ever is a system for character customization in a AAA quality directly inside Unity. Of course there are some systems like Fuse or Daz3D which are really good but then again they don’t work inside Unity. Or there’s UMA but it’s as well not an integrated system even if running directly inside Unity, but for non programmers easy to run into problems. Also again not AAA quality yet as well.

So what do you think about. Should this happen ? Do you want it or are you happy with graphics that appear to be 10 years or older ? Vote if you like or post down your opinion, maybe even some artists can find each other as I know some would love for example to create clothing and armor for a good looking base character if it’s available… So if people work together this might be possible. I for myself am a customer and can only support this by buying if it’s done and affordable. For what I think there should be a base set like

Male character customization - 50-150$*
Female character customization - 50-150$*
Modern clothing Male/Female - 30-60$*
Viking clothing - 30-60$*
Medieval guards clothing - 30-60$*
Sci-Fi clothing - 30-60$*

*price of course depending on quality and amount at the end. Yeah for AAA this looks like low prices but again we talk about non-exclusive work and some artists would be happy to be able to offer non exclusive work for such a price. Actually there are artists creating in AAA quality out there for less money already but they don’t have a character customization system available as it costs time and can cause problems.

So I hope for Unity technologies to read this and maybe think about a better solution for both artists and customers and yeah hobbyists like me as well.

Some might think this is unrealistic, well technically it’s not. It’s a question of the correct people, time and money. So lets talk about and see how many people would like such a system directly from Unity Technologies and if artists might be interested in creating content for it. Maybe even a kickstarter can be an option to pay Unity for creating such a solution. Of course it depends on if Unity would want to do such, or maybe a third party is interested in doing this and collaborate with Unity. I can just guess what’s best way and possible for the companies but hope that some of the skilled artists like this idea. After all Iam just a hobbyist. But I really think it’s sad that no one offers it. Similar solutions are out there if we look at DAZ3d or Mixamo but a good option directly from Unity tech would be best with less risk that something is not working as intended and the like. One base every artist can follow, not tons of different having different rigs and the like as well.

Of course this discussion should not be about what’s a realistic price or the like, I just hope we can determine how many people would like to see a boost in overall quality. For pricing there are many options like a fixed price, a Unity Pro feature, a monthly plan and so on. Personally I would prefer a pay for add on packs option as this works best for me and maybe other hobbyists or indies, but that’s as said a question for later. Maybe all are happy and no one likes better graphics. Then it’s ok and you can just ignore this of course.

Feel free to discuss but please keep from flaming or being offended if other people tell their opinions. In the past I have meet people who are not accepting different opinions and not able to discuss in a fair way. But this should be done here as that is what a forum is for. 2 response Votes available so feel free to mix.

Thanks
Best Regards

2

Good idea IMO, though first Unity needs to take care about improvements to existing systems like terrain/input/etc.

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AAA? Not gonna happen in Unity. Too many diverse styles of characters needed. There is good reason that you have to pay artists to create for your individual game. One game wants range weathered cowboys…fat, skinny, old, young, mustachioed, bearded, handsome, broke-nosed…different outfits for each. The other wants Manga.big eyes, rainbow hair, exaggerated female body, young teen boy, space girl… Another wants army guys… You don’t just pull sliders and color pick per part. MakeHuman has been in development for over six years and they still are only in the basic body and face morphs stage and with some poses only working on some builds that still ain’t working quite right.

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Unity should focus on what they do best: improving their game engine. Adding modeling of any kind will slow down progress on what really matters and there are COUNTLESS options already available that will always be better because a dedicated program will always be better at what it does that some software than tries to do too many things.

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Maybe if there were some really decent documentation, tutorials and possibly an improved workflow for UMA, artists would be more likely to consider creating content for it. I’ve seen some decent UMA characters that don’t look like 10 years old art.
isn’t DAZ OR FUSE just to build humans? UMA is capable of using any rigs isn’t it? To my opinion more work should be put into UMA, make it almost totally integrated inside unity editor. Have a build race wizard, stuff like that.
Just my opinion. I’ve been ask multiple times to create content for UMA or even contacted by mixamo to create stuff for Fuse. UMA sounded interesting but a pain to figure out, and Fuse easy to do but super limitated: just humanoid shapes, need to reuse the exact same UVs…

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Well the thought I have basically is not that Unity creates all the tons of different clothing and other options but provide a good base for it or help a company focussed on such to create it like Mixamo was. As you see they had some artists create the blacksmith examples actually and that’s a damn good quality. Also there is many artists here and some would be very capable of offering all those different clothing sets, it’s just so many problems. One guy uses Fuse, next one UMA, another try around using DAZ, others import their own custom parts to Unity and they all don’t match with each other. Now imagine there is one base system with a male and female body and some first clothing and hairstyles. A start. So artists can look at this and have a clear way to go. One could go and create dozens new hairstyles while another one starts creating modern clothing. Another one might go and add wings or tattoos for such a system. I think if the base is good the artists are here to create content which people can buy. And if rosor for example creates some cool outfits I could use it together with the hairstyles of 3d foin just for example. Also the base system itself can be sold. Of course such costs money and Iam willed to pay for such a system, just asking how others see. But allowing this to work without bigger problems directly. If we look at it a human is always a human no matter if it wears Medieval, modern or Sci-Fi Clothing. Yeah people need different styles that’s why the packs idea. They can buy what they need and artists could focus on the parts they know best. But the human part can always be the same. Of course it needs enough options first. And the blacksmith example clearly shows Unity have the people or skills to be able for such. But yeah of course I understand they have to focus on other big jobs on the engine, but that’s why the idea if there might be a third party involved in something more official. Look at Mixamo which was aquired by Adobe. They focus on such things.

Also all the artists here would be able to create additional options if this works. Of course if someone needs something special they have to hire an artist especially for that that’s true but if people need a blacksmith outfit it doesn’t have to be exclusive for example. Also if artists can mostly focus to create art for one system and not for many different to get more sells it might be better for them as well.

But yeah lets discuss this further and get more opinions. Thanks for replies so far. :slight_smile:

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Nope Daz can do both Bipeds and quadrupeds, I suppose for the license cost it’s worth it really… Plus you can use it now instead of waiting 5 years…

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Can you also add more than 4 legs, tail(s), wings, tentacles etc…?? Never used the software on my end.
I don’t know UMA much, I never used it. Just followed from time to time what’s going on with it on the dedicated thread. To me it looks like it’s possible to create whatever “race” you want and be able to edit / modify at run time or maybe even in the editor all the slots that you plan on adding. It looks like a really powerful tool but unfortunately undocumented and therefore totally user unfriendly for potential artists willing to develop content for it.

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http://www.daz3d.com/daz-dragon-3

Sure, just make sure it’s a “Daz Original” and you get the indie license before you publish the game. The EULA is a funny one…

Never used UMA personally, generally I tend to model characters myself… But for generic person A / B / C and generic monster I tend to use DAZ (or some equivalent)…

Reason I was interested was the lipsync tools, it’s a pretty good solution… Although you’ll need to buy the decimation tool as well… DAZ isn’t cheap, if you have a small budget there might be a better solution.

Makehuman is free, but only does human characters… Mixamo I’ve never really got along with, the char quality (base models) etc. I’ve never been impressed with, I can auto-rig with Maya as well. So the only thing I’d use it for is some of the animations.

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I vote no. It’s not core tech to a game engine. Modelling should stay it’s own speciality.

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Still disagree with what’s highlighted in red, art is a central core component to games and I’ve not heard a good enough reason yet to say otherwise. BUT! 3D character modelling is very specific, requires specialist tools (rigging, key frames etc.) and is a little specific to certain games.

So I don’t believe this particular proponent should be a core element either… Although again, if they decided to give it to me, I wouldn’t say no…

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If a tool like Daz3D or Fuse would be available right inside the engine, allowing artists to use it, this would be a big advantage. Also I’m not talking about a whole modeling tool here. Iam talking about a character customization tool and an offered male and female base, which can very well be created by a third party as well and not Unity and being sold as some extra add-on. The modeling would still be in the other programs but this tool should allow artists to work on the same base. Right now you have artists use different bones, namings and so on. Also of course this is mostly about humanoid characters right now as we all know only those characters are similar to each other while a creature with 20 arms would not be. Let’s see this question from another view… No one knows if a third party like Mixamo or Daz might be interested to have their product directly work inside the Unity engine. But if they are interested and enough Unity customers are as well, why ain’t there at least a talk about some collaboration. Also about art… Why is there a tree creator ? That one is art as well. Yeah it’s less complicated than a character system would be but still art. Following this sort of logic you should not use the integrated tree creator for anything at all.

It’s some kind of interesting I think… Right now quite some people say no this should not happen but if it would happen many would start to use it. Also technically it’s possible and won’t make the engine itself worse but offer an additional part to it, like the tree creator is. If you’re a modeler on your own and create your own character art that’s nice. But if you need tools like Daz or Fuse, this would just make the progress better and unified.

Let me ask some additional question.
Who would be interested to buy such a higher quality base character having customization options, from a third party ?

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The thing is what you want is not necessarily what another wants. In order to make a system that covers everything it is going to be a massive undertaking and will end up not having something someone wants.
Much better for a seperation system that ties into Unity. I want Unity to focus on the engine and doing the improvements for the terrain, networking, etc. Stuff that just about everyone needs. If I am making a endless runner, there is no reason for the engine to contain. Anything related to character customization because I won’t have any use for it.
And your idea of what AAA is I think is a little off. Most of the games you see customization in is a specialized system made spifically for that game in what is most likely a custom engine that cost millions in both financial and years in man power.
So if you want a system like that you either take what is out there already or start programming and modeling to get what you want and leave Unity to work on the game engine so you can tie it into it.

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Artwork is so subjective. What one person thinks is AAA another might not touch with a ten foot pole. Any system that Unity were to do would not be welcome by a large portion of the users.

I absolutely agree that it is not Unity’s job to supply us with a character system. Like others, I would much prefer better terrain, fixes for bugs, and a completed networking solution. That is where Unity’s strength lies.

I do understand the OP’s need for such a system though. Character systems are expensive to create and complicated. They take a lot of time and they really need to be customized for each individual game. The struggle to find an affordable solution is sometimes a huge hurdle for many developers. Because characters are so important and so visible to the player, they do need to suit the style of the game, another reason why a “catch all” system never works for everyone.

We are fortunate there are several solutions out there already and promises of more from asset developers, giving us lots of choices. As for AAA, as someone said, true AAA quality is not going to come from a system created for a tool like Unity, but from a system created specifically for your game. That means big money, unfortunately, which is why many indies and probably the vast majority of hobbyist do not go down that track.

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I don’t think unity needs to provide a solution, but I think there “should” be (that’s such a declarative word; a better way to say it would be “it would be immensely beneficial were there”) a system totally integrated into unity.

The game I’m playing around with will make heavy use of procedural generation and that includes (or can include I suppose) NPC characters. I’m not sure how I’ll “automate” something like that outside of unity.

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Whilst it would be great to have such a system, everyone reading this is picturing something that suits their own game’s art style. And there-in lies the problem.

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Wouldn’t UMA provide that?.. once it is stable of course. :slight_smile: And while it is not easy, like any major art task, you can put in you own models, which solves the “customization” problem and the quality issues with the models since you or someone you pay is making them specifically for your game.

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While I have no objection to character creation systems, I don’t think Unity working on a Unity-standard system is appropriate. I think that sort of thing should be left to the Asset Store developers.

Art style plays a big part in a character creation system. And you can’t realistically create a system that takes multiple styles into account. Whatever style that Unity chose for a Unity-standard character creation system, you would be stuck with that style focus for any game using that system.

But variety in art style is essential for having a game stand apart. It adds significantly to the personality of a title.

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I haven’t yet looked into UMA, honestly, though I’ve heard about it. Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll take a look at it.

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Documentation is not good on UMA. However, Secret Anorak created an excellent video series that will help you build a system for UMA. Also, there are other places to get help. If you need more info, feel free to PM me. I am far from an expert but I can give you some places to look. :slight_smile:

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