I was just wondering why I felt the overall internet forums article comments to be more and more aggressive down the years.
Seems like I’m not the only one :roll:
Seriously, I can’t find any place over the net where some popular thread won’t be crippled by random violent interventions, or remorseless judgments.
I’m quite surprised that this tendancy is not so much spoken of, as some of these aggressions can lead to serious moral injuries, and may cause short depressions to innocent people.
I remember back in the 00’s, it wasn’t like that.
You could talk, debate or even argue with a lot of people without being suddenly and violently pinned down for no fair reason.
I’m seriously thinking of saying farewell to internet discussion because of this.
After all, it may be no wonder why nearly none of the adults around me are running forums… :?
I find it has always been harsh but is definitely getting worse. I think it is people are finding out “they can”. They “can” because the internet is anonymous. Look at the “anonymous” behaviours in cars. As the culture gets more comfortable with the net, there is no reason to believe that their interactions towards those on the net will be any different than the interactions with those in cars. Now, throw in a cultural shift towards “entitlement” and you really should be happy that someone has taken the time out of their busy day to humiliate you.
Yeah, I think it’s because they “can” too.
Isn’t it depressing ?
Actually, this is what depresses me : people are more and more letting themselves being careless and remorseless with each others.
I can see it in common transports too. I don’t know how it’s like in other countries, but in France, general carelessness can’t stop growing.
Once again, it wasn’t like that 10 years ago (living around Paris since 1978).
Same for violence, I’ve never seen as much public violence news as nowadays.
The best illustration for this was back in 2009, where a used sales site created a promotion event near the Eiffel Tower.
They would distribute enveloppes to pedestrians, randomly containing Euros bills from the top of a bus. But they cancelled it at the last moment.
What resulted is over 5000 young people riotting, destroying, and assaulting people passing by.
Some innocent passing by pedestrians were beaten to the ground by groups of random angry men, for no reason.
How human is this ? This is the first time in my whole life that I witness such a thing in my country news.
I understand that this is not representative of all the people over the world, but I can’t help but find a link with this growing carelessness I was talking about on the internet.
I can’t help but wonder where are we going.
Your comparison with people inside their car is interesting, as it has always been a fact, unlike internet.
That’s an idiotic quotation. Taking away a child’s internet access is akin to raising them in a log cabin. And we see how well that turned out. I’d probably get pretty violent if my parents were so cruel as to do that, as well.
Teenagers are hormonally predisposed to be aggressive. The only reason you have more violence now is because people bred too much and didn’t die enough.
(And I’m fully aware of how ironic the tone of this post could seem. But I feel that I am rightfully offended by the article.)
Wow. Nothing screams out “entitlement” like smashing windows because noone gave you free money.
I am not much of an optimist, really, but I can’t help but feel that the core of violence is represented by a little area of the gene pool. I think the problem is nurture, not nature. People aren’t getting more violent, there’s just more people. (and much better communication). On top of that, you get local pressures. If I had the real possibility of starving, and evolution definately has proven that violence = food, I would become desensitised to it.
To a 15 year old, 10% unemployment, and nothing on the horizon for 5-10 years says “my immediate actions aren’t quite as important to me as yours were to you, dad”. … pressure.
People pull together when they are struggling. They get more selfless. I see commercials on TV trying to sell me something that will save me 12 seconds every day. My god. My time is just not that important. So the local pressure here (G8 developed) would be “boredom” for lack of a better word. Maybe that pressure shines a light on a couple more genetic throwbacks per sample.
Humans seem to require an intellectual need to care about each other. The just don’t do it because they “can”. How can a society be structured so individuals are treated with respect? I don’t know … but evolution, itself, is based on individuality (mutation). Yet, evolution, itself, is competitive and destructive.
Maybe they are right n0mad, but I agree with you, it isn’t “human” at all.
Yes, I understand the prejudice that such numbers could represent toward the youth.
(In fact all existing social analysis could be a prejudice to its content population)
I didn’t mean to take this article too seriously, only illustrative to the initial interrogation.
Really?
I wish it where still like that today. I hate playing online games for the reason that people start arguments for no reason, about ANYTHING. For example, in a multiplayer TD game, someone was new to the game and almost everyone started telling him to leave because he “he was a piece of crap”. It is absolutely rediculous.
It is the same with forums and other online activities (Unity forums included, but much better than any other I have ever seen).
Alas, I also agree. The internet probably isn’t to blame but the population.
Completely %100 human. People have been absolute monsters since the beginning. Wars and torture and whatever else you can think of.
Yes it was a lot easier. This is even why I spent all Saturday nights with people from a national chatroom, during 2 years
Met 60+ in total.
That was the same in online games (counter strike), people were far less insulting in my memories.
(maybe I was a very lucky guy ?)
I feel you about games …
I witnessed it to be the worst community of the net overall.
Take World of Warcraft for example (which might be the most aggressive ever), I remember back in the Burning Crusade starting days, I was just doing a quest, comfortably, with several horde players (= ennemies) around. No problem at all.
Then one started to kill me while I was busy with a monster. I paid no attention, and continued. Then he kills me again …
So I got pissed off, and killed him 10 times in a row. He logs out, and I’m suddenly facing a tornado of insults, provocations and very irritating words.
He has logged on a special Alliance account just to insult me.
(for people who don’t know WoW, you can’t talk to ennemies, only allies; and you can’t have an Alliance and a Horde on the same subscription, which means he was paying this alt account).
What is outstanding is that he started to ask me where do I live, for him to come and break my face …
Isn’t it ridiculous ?
And by the way in WoW, ennemies logging on ally account just for insult purpose is a daily routine.
I see what you mean, but I thought human would mean civilized
No I don’t really agree. I don’t think that sort of research has a great deal of value.
Teenagers get moody and aggressive when they don’t get what they want? Not seeing any amazing insight there.
People who show signs of internet addiction are more likely to have hit, shoved or threatened someone. Take the word “internet” out of that sentence and I strongly suspect it is still true.
Kids who study online are less likely to be violent than those who look at porn… no sh** sherlock, they’re different types of people, always were.
I could go on.
I saw plenty of unsavory behavior online 10 years ago. But back then, people who spent a lot of time online were a tiny minority, not the general population - so it wasn’t a social phenomenon. It was discussed, though. Also, the groups represented online were skewed to a certain type of person whereas now you get all sorts.
Society today I think does not do a very good job of bringing people up with awareness of the consequences of their actions. This is something that has been brewing for longer than people have been on the internet and we see it everywhere.
In some ways the internet helps people to be more tolerant, because it exposes them to different views and different types of people, while removing some of the opportunity for prejudice. In other ways, it helps people to be more unpleasant by removing accountability and consequence.
Overall, I think it comes out slightly ahead - since we were doing a pretty good job of the latter without it.
I don’t hold much credence in those kinds of studies either. They’re usually small in scope and don’t take enough factors into consideration to be solid. You could find studies to suggest just about anything you can think of.
That being said, I do think there is a growing degradation of general politeness in society as a whole. There are certainly many factors that come into play, but I do think that a couple stand out to me.
1. People are getting very used to getting what they want, when they want it. Need something to eat? Throw something in the microwave or get some fast food. Want to know something? Jump online and find it in minutes. Need a program? Buy it and download it instantly.
I believe this is leading to people getting more frustrated when they have to wait for something. Even a small wait can seem long by today’s standards. I think this is making folks a bit more snippy or sometimes even belligerent towards one another.
2. The anonymity of socializing online keeps people from connecting with each other as intimately as we would in person. There is so much information we gather from looking at each other and body language. When we can see an immediate reaction (even if subtle) it can greatly impact the direction of the conversation. So I think with so much communication these days lacking that intimacy, people are becoming more self centered and loosing their sense of empathy and altruism a bit. Most of that is online, but I think some of it spills over into the real world.
A few years ago, I used to compete in the 3dTotal speed modeling contest. Everyone was pretty cordial with one another, but you always feel a distance from others online. Then one of the contests was to model yourself or someone on the forum. People started posting photos of themselves for references. I noticed that my view of the people that posted photos immediately changed. They went from being “invisible” people on the internet, to real life flesh and blood. I immediately felt like I related to these folks in a stronger way than with folks that did not post photos. I felt more like I “knew” them.
In that spirit, I challenge people here to post a photo of themselves as their avatar. I bet it will change the way you see some of the folks around here. I’ll start, even though I don’t really have any good pictures of myself. Pictures of me are a rare thing.
Are you out of your mind? People have been assholes for years. I hate to wake all you hippies up, but in some cultures military / corporate American if you are not an asshole you are viewed as weak and effeminate. Even women are expected to be masculine in modern culture.
Teens are just acting like their parent but without the self-control.
On programming communities it at least to me seems as if the problem has grown exponentially the past few (3-4) years.
Not that you can jump online and find it in minutes (where us the old school users of the altavista days and earlier know what real searching means), the problem is or at least to me seems that more and more “newly attracted beings” are harshly put that shit lazy that they do not even want to use the search capabilities of boards and google anymore and instead just post onto boards, bug others to do their work etc.
I’m seeing this more and more often in the regular life too so its not just an internet thing. It seems like the “more and more affordable lazy behavior” not only makes them lazy but also makes them arrogant about being lazy, living in the soap bubble of believe, believe that they are entitled to anything they didn’t work for where they are realistically only entitled to a kick up the butt to hopefully wake them from their dreams and make them an acceptable part of our society again.
I’m really worried where the society will end if it continues to degenerate at the current rate.
I know that it has changed and must change, but the path we are taking and the pace at which our drowning happens are something that is basically completely new to the mankind.
We make “evolutionary steps” in years that were the matter of decades and more just 150-200 years ago
I agree, in some circles that kind of attitude is rewarded, but a poor excuse is not an adequate justification. IMO it’s weak to sacrifice your morals and values to bend to the will of some ridiculous standard. One doesn’t need to be a prick to be strong and confident. Why would anyone want to be an asshole anyway, they’re just full of shit.
While it is nice to think, you can be strong and confident and not be a prick it just does not seems to work that way. You have to have some lack of empathy for your fellow man to order him to rush a machine gun post or even to maintain order and discipline in a work place. Firing / hiring / promoting doing whatever it takes for the bottom line. Amoral is not the same as immoral but its close.
In order to be strong and confident you have to disregard other peoples feeling and push them out of your way. It is a dog eat dog world. Social Darwinism is deeply intertwined with capitalism, survival of the fittest. That is why I would not want a job where I have to be an asshole. I guess I am cursed to be someone else bitch or an academic. The rat race will never end.
I see where you’re coming from, and certainly agree that’s the way things tend to be in certain circumstances. I don’t however think that’s the way it “has” to be. Tough decisions do have to be made at times, like in the military or corporate world, but they don’t have to be made without empathy.
An extended family member of mine actually started a company that turned into a multi-million dollar corporation. He’s one of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet. His father, who is one of those cut throat business men got into the company with him and tried to oust his best friend, whom he had started the company with. He did what he had to do, and fired his dad. A tough decision, but really it was made because he wouldn’t let his company be run like the other corporations. He didn’t want that attitude in his company. He made that decision with empathy for his partner and employees.
Likewise, I don’t think most soldiers want to fight. Most do it to protect the innocent and to keep the peace. I have many family members in the armed forces that are not assholes that lack empathy at all. Quite the opposite. They want to protect those that can’t protect themselves. I hope they never have to make those tough decisions, but if they do, I know they will do so knowing the weight they carry.
So I agree with you to a point, but there are people that buck the system and stick to their guns. I admire those people a great deal. I would like to be financially successful and keep my morals in tact myself. But even if I’m poor my whole life, I’ll still be happy that I lived the best I could. I’d rather be a good man than a rich man, but I don’t think those two things have to be mutually exclusive, so I hope someday to be both.
You must lead a rather sheltered existence. What the individual wants is not material as for changing the system good luck.
Just be glad you are still a rare and precious flower. I do not want to even think what would happen to you if you where ever in. Maybe you would do ok in the Air Force as a enlisted.
Yahoo! completely removed all of their article comment functions for their news stuff several years ago. Reason being is that as soon as a fresh news article showed up, the entire comments section began to fill up with some of the bitterest partisan political fighting(which had nothing to do with the original article, usually), conspiracy loonies, racist/bigoted garbage and all sorts of unpleasantness. This was about half-way through the 00s. I don’t bother looking at the comments for any news article anywhere these days unless I’m looking for a laugh or some sort of masochistic thrill.
The late 90’s and early 00’s saw the start of places like SomethingAwful who got their thrills by trolling anyone and everyone they could hook. Entire communities developed where all communication was in the form of arguing, insults and put-downs.
Before that it was E/N sites and their followers causing all sorts of drama amongst themselves. Before that you could find heated arguments on Compuserve discussion boards. Before that you could find people arguing on BBSes. Before that you can check Google’s archive of the earliest Usenet postings to find people sniping at each other and picking fights all the same.
The only trend here that I see is that the amount of people using the internet has risen exponentially over the past 20 years, so stumbling across nasty talk just gets easier. Some people honestly get a thrill out of fighting and the internet is a great place to do it. There just as many places that have polite conversation as well. You either don’t notice it or just don’t have a reason for going to those places.
Ah, I thought we were having a pretty good debate there. It’s unfortunate that you’ve now resorted to wild assumptions about my life and character, of which you obviously know nothing.
And I never said that I wanted to change the system. Only that I have no intent to lower my morals to accommodate assholes that want to justify their character flaws with the weak excuse that it’s just the way things are done. Not that dissimilar from what you said at the end of your previous statement.
But I digress, this debate has gotten a bit off track and has obviously come to an end. It was fun while it lasted.