So I updated the asset store package, Characters Creatures (Pack), and found that there used to be 7 characters in there. In the latest update, the author removed them to only 5.
Is this allowed?
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Uh are you serious? It’s his package, he can do with it what he likes. He’s not taking away the original (7) you purchased. You own what you bought and you have those. He isn’t forcing you to upgrade to this package nor is he forcing you to buy the new package. That is entirely your choice as a consumer. Also I think it’s important to note, that he’s actually giving more product for the money with the new package!
(7) creatures for $50 before the sale. Now you get (5) for $30. That means they used to cost $7 per creature and now they are only $6 per creature. More creature for your money.
$30 bucks for (5) rigged and animated creatures with all specular, diffuse and normal maps included is a STEAL deal. Do you know the time and effort it takes to do the modeling, UVs, texturing, rigging, and animation for each character model? The cost to do these is most likely around $500 per character.
About 15 hours of modeling and texturing - $25 x 15 hours = $375
About 8 hours of rigging/setup and cleaning up motion capture - $25 x 8 hours = $200
This is assuming not much hand animation has to happen and it’s all applied motion capture with key cleanup.
$575.00 USD per character.
$2,875.00 USD for all (5) characters’ production.
Assume we give an indie discount as it’s freelance work and not in-studio production.
$2,000.00 USD production cost for these characters.
Why complain about getting less for $30 USD? That covers about 1 hour of labor.
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I think the problem may be that I don’t believe you can download previous versions of a package. If you bought it before, and either didn’t download it at the time, or no longer have a copy of that uintypackage you no longer have access to the items you originally bought.
There is some feedback on the page from another customer and a reply, but it isn’t clear if it was resolved or what the issue was.
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I think the point was that features disappeared since the original purchase. People don’t always know about the changes/downgrade when they hit the update button in the asset list since the change logs can be very vague or don’t list these type things. I’ve seen threads about this in the past and it’s an issue if someone does not have backup and they update to latest. People have requested the Asset store to have multiple versions available due these things.
I don’t think the rant about the cost has anything to do with the issue.
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Ah okay I took it to mean something about less value for cost or something along those lines. I wasn’t aware there were such issues like this on the Asset Store. When I purchase something from the Asset Store I have a workflow for the package file, which involves storing in a repository for later, uploading to a cloud service (in my case Dropbox), and then copying it and storing it in a redundant backup drive in the same PC. This way I have it accessible from anywhere via the cloud and I have two physical backups of it. This is just from my experience of “losing” files, packages and entire game projects to drive failure. I have to say if people aren’t backing up stuff, especially their purchases, then I don’t know what can help them. That’s software development 101 stuff.
- Very surprised to learn the Asset Store doesn’t have archived downloads for previous purchases.
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Granted I’m no character artists and some of the tasks like motion capture or manual animation I just can’t do, but I often wonder how people can really quote/offer/estimate that stuff so insanely cheap around here. I’d have guessed more like 2-5k$ per character, especially if they anatomically don’t fit a default human baserig. 500$ per character seems more like a low-wage-outsourcing-country-price to me. Also in your calculation I see an estimate for mocap cleanup, but not for the recording. Where’s that data coming from? How do you mocap that weird spider-crap thingy?
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Yes this is basically based around a student/new grad wage of around $25 per hour in the US. Like you said it’s really low end and comparable to having work done in Vietnam or India. It’s really an issue of estimating based on what the market will bear. Good catch on the motion capture. This is assuming you find good mocap elsewhere on the web (the university stuff, the Asset Store has some nice mocap sets, etc). Things like the spider you most definitely couldn’t readily find mocap for. Shoot, I can’t even find any dog or cat motion capture, let alone a spider.
Also you have to estimate based on the resolution of these assets. I would never charge the same estimate for a mobile resolution character that I would one that would be used on an PS4 or the like. Mobile art content you’re going to get these lower estimates at a lower rate and for next gen art content your going to get a higher rate and time estimate. These characters seem to be around 5,000 or 4,000 triangles so most definitely lower resolution than say a typical 40,000 triangle next gen character. Lower rate, quicker production times equals much lower quotes.
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Why would the author remove content from the asset, though? Were the characters faulty in some way?
It’s not just bad for previous owners, but for the author as well. He lowered the value of his asset, making it harder to sell, and he had to lower the price to adjust for the downgrade.
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Although mocap of this nature can not be (should not be) provided in any asset to be sold on the asset store. Usually it is spelled out in the mocap license (which isn’t even read by most who use them) or eula. It’s just safe to keep free and for purchase content totally separate.
If the character pack with animations is to be sold for profit - it should contain new mocap captured created by the artist or hand keyed animations, not free mocap libraries (not to be sold for profit) readily available.
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Unity’s Asset Store mocap can be used in an asset sold on their store. I do know that much. They have a pretty extensive Unity package file of bipedal animation. They’ve always said you can use their freely provided assets in commercial products for sale.
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Not necessarily true. In fact removing some of the fluff characters and reworking materials or textures for a smaller set of assets could be an improvement in value. Especially so if they were converted to PBR materials and textures. Basically improving quality over quantity. Maybe you take those other two characters and break them out into their own pack because they don’t fit the theme of this pack. Maybe they fit the theme of another pack better. I see all kinds of realistic motivations for doing this. I can’t say why this developer specifically went this route.
That’s true, and we don’t know if the changes are temporary and the missing characters are just in queue for improvement.
In any case, changes like this should still keep the old files in a folder somewhere, even if the store page screenshots do not display the old files.
From user side, it’s always good to promptly download all the content and back it up.
From your reply, I can be certain (and of my opinion) that you
- Did not bought the package.
- Did not buy a lot of things from assetstore so you don’t know there is no download of older versions.
- Like to reply without thinking.
If I have bought the package at $50 for 7 characters, and now it becomes $30 with 5 characters, how is that a good deal for me? If you are an asset seller, please let me know your id so I will avoid your products.
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You’re correct I haven’t bought this package. I have purchased quite a few things from the Asset Store, but I wouldn’t say often. I usually give replies a decent amount of thought. I admitted in my post I didn’t interpret what was being said because the posting was worded oddly, vague and not specific in intent. I initially thought this was about cost and quality of assets, not about the accessibility of older package versions. I also explained how the value could be improved even though the amount of characters are lessened. Not to mention you get more value with the (5) characters for $30 over the (7) for $50 directly due to the fact that cost per character goes down. At (7) characters they run about $7 per, at (5) characters they are about $6 per. You might also be getting value in upgraded materials and textures, i.e. new PBR setups for each. They visually look nicer in the screenshots. You might get value in removing some of the fluff characters and reworking materials or textures for a smaller set of assets. Especially so if they were converted to PBR materials and textures. Basically improving quality over quantity. Maybe you take those other two characters and break them out into their own pack because they don’t fit the theme of this pack. Maybe they fit the theme of another pack better. I see all kinds of realistic motivations for doing this. I am an asset store seller, and you can find that information very easily (big clue is to simply look at my post and signature). You can avoid my products as much and as long as you like, makes no difference to me, it’s hobby income and I have a very good day job. 
Let me add: Please read above about backing up and saving your purchased assets. I would suggest saving them in the cloud in private repositories as well. If the asset is “lost” on your hard drive there is only one person to blame for that.
Backups or not, the issue was are such noticeable downgrades legal.
It’s impossible to backup every possible update just in case of drastic or unwanted changes. I checked my store notification window and over 30 package update notification for the past 7 days. Asset Store should provide snapshots of past versions or major updates.
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I’m totally on board with recommending backing up your projects. It’s one of those things that once it happens to you and you lose a lot of work, you learn to protect yourself in the future.
However, the question remains: Is it against the Asset Store’s TOS to modify a package in a way that removes content previously provided? Let’s say I’m using this asset for each of the 7 bosses in my game. Everything’s coming along well, and then I update the package and have suddenly lost the art for 2 of my bosses. As a customer who paid for the full package, I’m not benefiting from any increased value that might have been managed by lowering the price and included models…
@imtrobin , I would recommend you contact the asset author directly. In all likelihood, he or she would be willing to give you the missing art files that were removed from the package, as well as explain exactly why the removal happened. If not, the best thing you could do would be to write a fair review of the asset to keep others informed of the author’s practices, just in case. People respond to things pretty quickly when it’s their public reputation on the line.
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Well, it is never desired that the value of your purchase goes down. But the most important thing is that you at least have what you agreed to pay for initially.
If you get extra characters after purchase, without extra charge, then you can consider those an extra (forgive the redundancy). But the ORIGINAL agreement should not be broken … I mean at least I thought that’s the basics of buying something.
Even in the case that the price of your purchase goes down, right after you purchase, which is sucky, but it can happen, the important thing is that as an adult you make the commitment to purchase something at that given time, but should not risk not getting what he or she payed for … unless it’s very clearly specified.
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But isn’t what happened in this case that the value did go down. The OP (presumably) purchased the asset at full price (even if it was at “full” sale price) for the included 7 models. Then an update removed 2 of those models.
Let’s say I purchased a new car that had Hyundai’s Best In the Business warranty policy, which includes regularly scheduled oil changes and service. I take my car in for an oil change, and when I go to pick it up, find out the navigation system has been removed, because new Hyundais are no longer including navigation systems at that price. That would be cause for outrage, I imagine.
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In the Asset Store Terms there is only a reference to “Upgrades”. I believe the automatic updates could inadvertently “Downgrade/Upgrade” an asset if the publisher decided to remove an existing item so it is a bit weird if it is allowed by Unity to remove things that are not broken in an “Upgrade”.
Leaving the “deprecated” assets in the “Upgrade” would be a better choice in my opinion.
If the Publisher don’t want to support the old assets I suppose they could “Deprecate” the entire asset and allow the existing customers a free purchase of the new asset, then the existing customers could both download the old and new asset.
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I think he created new packages… so the 2 characters got moved over to one of his newer packages or something like that. He does good work so I watch for his new stuff, but recently he has just been cranking out new packs that are mostly just mismatching of his other packs into groups.