Multiplayer concerns.

Hey guys, I have a concern with Multiplayer games (not cheating, etc) I know ways of preventing it.

Here’s my problem. I genuinely love to make MP games, in fact they are all I really like to make.
throughout my years of working with Unity, I’ve made made 10-20 MP games, most are now in the garbage can. They were practically 99% done, but one thing stopped me, it’s not fear from critics, nothing like that.

But the part that always, and I mean always scares me - is - the bill.

I know this personally is none of my business, but how much have you paid in Networking fees before? And was it covered from either (Selling) your game every month, or was it covered from IAP/DLC (E.G. - Map packs, Skins, etc).

My game I want to make it free on Kongregate. I plan on doing Map Packs and Skins, nothing that gives players an advantage in the game, just optional things - like more maps, or make your whatever look different.

So I’m trying to find out, not that what I’m trying to do is a good business plan, but trying to find out how much this stuff cost me per month in a real life environment so I can (try) to plan accordingly. I don’t trust these Calculator things, I’d love to hear of some stories so I don’t make the same bad mistakes you guy’s have learnt.

I hate to ask any of this, I normally don’t ask questions like this, so I’m trying to put my pride to the side for a moment so I can learn from your experience…

I mean did just a few players make you spend 500 dollars a month, or was it like 5 dollars a month, I’m not asking for extremely detailed documents, just a rough - I had this many players, I had to pay this much, this is the networking package I used, etc.

If this is too personal of a question, I understand if you rather not answer this.

Thanks guys.
David.

This is really a non issue. First, if you don’t do stupid ****, your costs will be fine. If you do make dumb mistakes, but have some success, well money tends to make it all work out. You hire someone to fix your mistakes.

So basically don’t worry about it that much. You don’t hear about startups failing because of tech, well almost never. Because money really does solve all problems here.

Specific answers depend on specific details, different games can and will have very different server cost profiles. And you have different cost break points at certain scales also usually. I haven’t worked on a game where server costs ran more then 15%.

@snacktime : Thanks for that man, it’s just nice to hear some re-assurance that it usually scales out and such.

One thing I’ve wondered though, is how in the world do free games, literally free in every possible way (no IAP, etc), can still afford Photon and such when they are popular. Which popular results in a big bill lol.

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hmm … do they have players that rent servers maaybe??
people used to always rent tons of servers for like wolfenstein, call of duty 2, battlefield etc…

or is that not how Photon works???
… i looked into Photon before and it seemed like a noob trap scam or something… but i dont really knooow, its just the way it came off to me at a glance… …or really it didnt fit my ideal use case (LAN is a must, and independence from some ‘black box’ third party bs).… but i can see how for like little games for kongregate or smartphone itd be nice …

maaybe you could have some sort of mtx system for players to buy server space or whatever? or like they get some cosmetic that says “i donated for servers” or something like that idk… or there is exclusive maps for only those donated servers or something like that, if you really think it could be an issue

@ : Photon is far from a trap or scam. In fact it’s WAY cheaper than unet… UNet charges (same exact type of Multiplayer system), something like 50 cents per gig. Photon will charge like 5 cents per gig…

It’s just cloud networking, so instead of one centralized server, it’s just in the cloud.

I would prefer to do a dedicated server, I just don’t have the hardware to produce a master server for thousands of players lol.

We use the Steam networking SDK, completly free :smile:
edit: well, its not free, Steam takes a share of the revenue offcourse

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Guessing of course you can only use that if game is on Steam hahaha.
So that takes that out of the option sadly lol.

We are thinking of moving away from Steam SDK so that we can publish to PSVR, we need to write our own reliable udp and master server code, but it should be doable.

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just wanted to comment that map packs can be very risky for small games. if your playerbase is already small, now you are dividing it yet again based on who paid for what map pack

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Pay $100 for permanent access to free networking for a single game. Sounds like a smart choice to me.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/06/02/steam-direct-publishing-fee-is-100-dollars/

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Hey!
What about using Gamesparks?

Also a pay on sucess model…

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This is all voodoo, mystical, hidden figures to me also. Thanks for asking the question @N1warhead_1
It doesn’t help that I rarely play online multiplayer games, unless my son asks me to.

Can you elaborate on a couple examples?
What are considered dumb mistakes for networked games?

Are costs different when the game is turn based / 1v1 (chess) over network?

15% of what, earnings?

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Didn’t even Titanfall revert to free mappacks, because of that issue? I think for small games it’s straight up the wrong approach to monetize, for the reason you mentioned.

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Dumb mistakes vary a lot. It could be you are just sending way too much data for a realtime game, and that can skyrocket your costs. Usually when unity is involved high costs stem from a higher level bad architecture design. Like not having a non unity core server and designing your system so you require too many unity instances. Like if you have a 3-4 player coop setup which requires a unity instance per coop. That could kill you, and it’s probably not necessary.

15% cost was percent of total costs.

As to bandwidth specifically it’s worth noting that bandwidth is something the large cloud providers put one of the highest markups on. Because most of their customers are web dev folks. And in that industry bandwidth costs are usually negligible. So markups there are usually several hundred percent. It’s toughest on the little guys because you have no leverage. Big name game studios can often get all sorts of crazy under the table deals because of brand association and co marketing deals.

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Thanks for the mention Johnnymagne!

Hi N1Warhead,

You should check out our Student and Indie programme over at GameSparks - https://www.gamesparks.com/pricing/
With this programme, once you qualify, your first 100,000 MAUs are completely free! Once you go over that number it’s just 2c per user.

We can help with player inventory, push notifications, virtual goods, real-time multiplayer and more! One of our users created the game Dungeon Team and recently put it up on Kongregate too!

If you’d like more info on our pricing and how GameSparks can help with your game, please don’t hesitate to get in touch via info@gamesparks.com

You can also check out GameSparks Learn+ which contains documents and tutorials on our features which you can browse in your own time - https://docs.gamesparks.com/

Our support team is also on hand to answer any questions should you get stuck - https://support.gamesparks.net/support/home

Best of luck with your project regardless! :slight_smile:
Clare

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@GameSparks_Clare_1
You guys have looked at the Steamworks SDK? If yes, how much effort would it be porting from Steamworks to your solution?

@GameSparks_Clare_1 Can I support 20 player or 40 player matches in realtime battles?

Minimum 20 players is what I’d like, but I’d like to have more around 40 (Something I know PUN can’t do) with realtime battles.

Though not directly related - maybe you could look into getting a ‘partnership/publishing’ deal with someone who would be willing to take on networking costs. Something I recently saw -

@theANMATOR2b oh wow, that’s really neat! I’d love to get some sort of publishing to offset costs and such… I love Kong, would be amazing to have a partnership with them and such. Well - so long as the terms are fair and honest.

Yeah that would be awesome - I bypassed kong with my demo, partly because I was wore out with the other portals, and partly because I didn’t like their windowed views, and partly because I really don’t like their rating system, and last because I was being too picky! but I’ve always thought of them as an acceptable, alternate web portal site.

The article mentions them wanting to increase web development - beyond the common content they currently have - might be a good opportunity to show your product as something that can be a different offering, while possibly bridging the gap between the web based products and PC products.

Heck! If anyone would agree to pay for networking costs - that would be an awesome offer - for your situation - out of sight - out of mind. :slight_smile:
Might push you into resurrecting some of your other MP games.