I haven’t been watch this too closely, but since I just got an update e-mail from Garage Games, does anyone have any insight into the new Torque 3D version?
From what I read, they’re adopting a pricing model and unified editor/IDE that looks … very familiar some how (ignoring the new naming scheme for a moment).
In the feature compare lists I find it interesting that source code and the new web player are not included in the basic feature set. I thought “source code included” was one of their key selling points, why the shift?
Just curious, anyone in the beta? Some of my questions are: Is this new integrated tool set similar to Unity in use? The physics integration seems interesting, but I don’t see which one comes with the product. I’ve always been curious about the “torque net” back end which is listed, but doesn’t appear in the actual feature list, is this something bundled with the web player item?
Not that I need another tool to keep me up nights right now, but I’m always on the lookout for new tools (ok, i have a problem with new toys, there I admit it!). (don’t worry UT, I’ve already ear-marked my iPhone pro spend… but a guy has to bridge the gap between buying all the current UT toys and the next wave, don’t I? :lol:)
I’m own TGE and TGEA (both Indie) and now evaluating Unity 2.5 for Windows(trial), after getting announce about T3D(which will cost for me much less if I pre-order) i started comparing and asking myself interesting questions,to some of which I don’t have answers(and answers I have arleady can be possible of help to somebody)
It’s unclear WHERE I should e-mail if I had questions on Unity trial(I know where I should e-mail in GG’s case in such situations)…trial@?sales@?E-mailed both - so far - no answer.
T3D webplayer. How they do it? Unity can allow to have plugin installed and be much more trusted than random developer and after all plugin is installed once. Given that Unity games are in fact .NET assemblies(not C++ plugins allowed in player) this can be safe. It’s interesting how GG will plan to work around this. Provide source code for plugins and require each game to have their own plugin(so it must be signed(code sign cert is another thing to pay)?Or allow to run unsigned native binaries?(which will be one big security hole)
Unity’s browser plugin works everywhere on Windows(for example, I build Qt-based QtWebKit example and Unity plugin worked. Not without some problems but it worked).
It looks like T3D DROPS their support for DIFs, so good bye to BSP-based interiors(and they have no PVS).
Torque documentation in general. I looked into Unity’s documentation just a less and even now for me it’s better than TDN(Yes, It was said that they will imporove that. I will believe in this when I see new documentation. So far-only problems).
Logo requirements and ‘must be a game’/‘no external funding’ requirements even on T3D Pro. Beatiful. Especially compared to what was said about Unity
Forests. Looks like this will be add-on to T3D. For additional money of course.
It is said that T3D will have networked physics. But not PhysX…Well
Given current information I had, you can develop game(or not something different -:)) with Unity Indie, but it will NOT be possible with T3D Basic(script-only access to TGE/TGEA was never enough and it’s being marketed as artist-only…)
So far TGE and TGEA had possibility to run separate headless server with NO graphics. If I understood correctly, Unity can’t do that. And network protocol for networkview,etc is not documented. So only option is using .NET sockets
TGEA is for gaming machines. Not general ones. Unity on the other side as I understood can correctly degrade even to Riva 128
It’s unclear if T3D’s webplayer have even some kind of streaming/caching, especially implementing via browser. (As far as I understood(correct me if I’m wrong here please), Unity downloads streamed content via br-wser-native ways(i.e WinINet on IE,etc) and using browser settings for proxy,etc. This is very good in some situations).
Unity DOES NOT have fully functional debugger for scripts(so far it’s unclear for me is fully functional one is really needed for Unity).TGE/TGEA(and I’m sure T3D) have Torsion.
Unity… is very artist-friendly. And looks like authors thought hard about editor interface. THOUGHT and NOT making it ‘dumb and basics only’. Mac background?
Unity has copy-protection(any kind of GG’s engines with sources does not of course). and from information I had about PACE it likes to install kernel-level drivers(not sure if Unity use this misfeature, if it is - it’s very bad).Also, issue remains what will actually happen if I (for example) install Unity at work and at home, in 2 weeks,upgrade home computer(as in ‘anything that left from old one is case and monitor/keyboard/mouse’, in 3 months decide I want Unity on my notebook.in another 3 months upgraded home computer again, month after that decide I want to go develop for iPhone, buy Unity base for iPhone and Mac Mini… With GG I sure that I will not have problems. (I also sure of that with for example Steam games), I not so sure with Unity, given that some kind of binding to machine IS present and it’s not fully clear how it will work in situations like that.
It states on the download page to contact sales@unity3d.com about any questions. Also, right now they have to deal with a major release to windows and GDC so I would give them a few days (I mean you have 30 days to demo the product so…).
Yea, I don’t have a great feeling that GG is going to create as clean documentation that Unity seems to have (and even tho GG have MORE documentation on TGE/TGEA, the way it is, or should say not, organized make it pretty useless).
Yea, that to me is also a major downside of T3D making it 2X the cost of Unity. It funny but GG has always stated when compared to other engines that they offer the same feature set no matter the license, not true any more.
I did not read that, interesting tho
Not sure what networked physics is the best but if PhysX is good enough for Gamebryo its has to be pretty good.
Yea, With TGE/TGEA (and maybe T3D), if you are going to be making anything that is not a FPS, you will almost 100% need access to source code and make changes (possibility major one)
With the pro version of Unity, you can us any network library with the use of the plug-in system.
And this is something the can increase your target market and therefore increase possible sales (if you sell your game).
Well I know there is a built-in debugger when running the game from the IDE, not sure what debugging feature Torsion (which cost more money by the way) has.
Unity’s editor is probably the biggest reason to use Unity over other low cost engines like TGE/TGEA/T3D, C4, Cipher, etc…
You simply email Unity. This might be a little bit of a hassle but I rather deal with this and have a great engine with a fantastic editor than not have to deal with this and have an engine that is very good but provide only a very basic editor. I would love to know why this would be a deal breaker for anyone.
Rest assured, Unity does not use nor install the PACE kernel module. You can have your Unity license installed on two machines at a time. To move the license to a different machine contact support@unity3d.com. Unity support will respond promptly. Most simple hardware updates (swapping out graphics cards, adding hard drives, replacing ram, etc.) do not require reactivating Unity. I think you can even reinstall the entire OS without causing problems with the activation count.
With TGE/TGEA what was needed for me NOT Scripting Engine reference(which is btw, is partly in separate books) but engine core(C++ part) documentation. And there is almost no systematic information on that except private forums.
so far, looks very good. Any 2 machines(of course assuming I don’t switch them every day -:))?
-what if one of them Windows and another Mac?
-also, what if this is in fact one dualboot machine with both Mac OS X and Windows - is this considered one machine or two?
joktar: to be clearer… 1 machine running dual boot or VM is considered 2 installs if you put it on OSX and Windows, so yes, you will use up both licenses doing that.
sales@unity3d.com … They are very busy, as is GG right now. There’s going to be a lag in responses regardless.
No, they do not. It is planned to move away from this, but as of right now, no.
Their documentation has greatly improved; there’s no arguing this. Whether it’s where it needs to be, we will see.
The only logo requirement for T3D is a splash screen. GG allow’s for developers to make their own GG splash but with final approval from GG.
This appears to be true. Either way it’s still cheaper over all.
This has slightly been talked about, but from my understanding your statement may not be true(the last part).
In general, T3D basic is meant for Artist’s… meaning if they have no need to have access to the source, they aren’t forced to buy the pro version. A team with coder’s and artist’s are not required to have the same version. The coder can make a binary from their code set and give it to the artists… a way to save teams money.
well… depending on what you have going on in your game would determine that anyway wouldn’t it?
True, Torsion runs I think around $39.00. You are also open to numerous other applications such as Overlord ($29.00) or most others at your choosing. I think Unity only works with their $500.00 asset server.
The Unity editor is spectacular imo. I don’t think any other engines editor comes close. It’s definitely a big plus.
I am not talking about c# plug-ins but talking about c++ plug-ins. The general feeling I got from read on the forums is that you can use any c++ plug-in that you want but of course if you use a plug-in that in windows only or Mac only you would only be able to deploy for that system. Maybe this assumption is wrong (and prove the point of my sig).
So why quote my post? :roll:
For standalones, it’s not a problem. You can use any native code you want, as long as you know how to interop with it via P/Invokes (or the native plugin API I guess).
Yep. Just re-register after install and it doesn’t reduce your activation count
Unfortunately true breakpointing would need to be supported by the mono runtime which it currently isn’t. They’re working on it though. At the moment your alternative is:
Debug.Pause();
return;
Which obviously only works in the editor.
Alternative you could toggle on “pause on error” in the log window and that causes the editor playback to pause at the first unhandled exception.
Not to kick a dead horse, but this baffled me a bit and I had to go check you were right. Sure enough, there’s an “Allows for non-game projects” feature in there.
TGEA 1.8 (or even 1.7? skipped that so I don’t know for sure) already introduced polysoup collision.
That has helped many developers to basically get the levels they ever wanted and to have them working the way they wanted.
This was a long time problem in Torque as DIFs are BSPs and BSPs are very restrictive on the allowed geometry.
Additionally there was the 256 face restriction that at least in my experience was able to kill any more complex objects pretty right off.
The only thing that I did not like about the polysoup support right from the start was the usage of ODE
I’ve never liked it and it was never known for high performance.
Main reason likely was OSX. PhysX does not have OSX versions unless you get the source license so it would have put another $50k on the financial plate. With the price of a TGEA license, thats just not payable from any realistic point of view …
And Newton is just newton. Nice but my experience with it so far were far from pleasant actually especially in crossplatform environments.
I’ve also to out myself as Torque3D preorderer.
To me its an investment into the future as to me, Unity and Torque3D both have their very distinct places where they are meant to use.
Unity is easy to use and allows fast development, potential real webdeployment and a flexible artist friendly environment.
To me Unity is a synonym for rapid game development to small to medium scale projects.
Large projects can be done as well but depending on what you do, you might reach the point where the source license might be required and at that point, Torque licenses are peanuts.
Torque on the other end to me is a synonym of “whatever you can program can be achieved”.
Its not nearly as userfriendly as Unity to get there and I would never ever even consider touching it for any small to smaller medium project.
But once you require very specific optimizations and modifications or if you intend to do a multiplayer shooter, Torque will shine as it is unmatched price wise in that sector.
There is only one thing Unity does not really shine right now and thats the Asset handling in team environments.
The Asset Server is missing many common features, SVN can’t be used and asset server licenses require Unity Pro in addition to the hefty fee. But I definitely believe in Unity Technology and their capability to get those missing features in place in future versions.
The new server management in Unity 2.5 has clearly shown that there is a good reason for this hope
To me as freelance developer its simple: I need to have both at hand and need to be able to use both, because I can be sure, that I will get into situations where one will clearly dominate over the other.
If this hasn’t already been answered by someone else…
I haven’t run into any restrictions using .NET/Mono assemblies in Indie, as long as I don’t reference native code modules.
So far, I haven’t had any problems at all with simply dropping 3rd party .NET components into Unity3D projects.
For instance, we have a pure .NET version of our conversational artificial intelligence system, and with no modifications whatsoever, I simply dropped our AI core DLL components into a Unity project’s Assets folder, added a little extra scripting to a game character and was up and running right away with in-game AI using our system.
In addition, our AI core DLLs weren’t even compiled with Mono, but using Microsoft’s compiler. Yet our modules run just fine on the Mac, as well as within Unity webplayer.
Yes, Mono already supports MS generated assemblies anyway, but rest assured that Unity3D does nothing to break this, and as far as I can tell, Unity has no additional configuration requirements beyond putting your assemblies somewhere in your project’s assets.
They have some weird rules over there… they wouldn’t let me use the indy version of tgea for educational games and said that I had to buy the full pro version.
Hence the fact I continued looking and found Unity
(ignoring the new naming scheme for a moment).
