Unity should combine URP and HDRP as a single RP.

Unity Engine
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To start this off, it’s rumored that the next flagship phones of Samsung -S22 series- will have a chipset capable of Ray Tracing for the first time in mobile history! If that happens by any means whether it be sooner or later, it could be the end of URP!

Q / Why and how is it the end of URP?

A / Well, let’s see why there’s even a render pipeline called URP in the first place…

• Universal Render Pipeline -URP for short- was built from the ground up for applications that target a wider range of audiences and devices, especially for mobile platform.

• URP is Never meant for high-end cutting-edge Only and demanding applications.

With that said, anything that comes the opposite way of how URP works, will break its main purpose, hence the end of URP!

In other words, if Ray Tracing comes to mobile, Unity will have to build support for it eventually, which will defeat its main purpose as mentioned. Unity now faces two problems:

  1. if it supports it, it’ll just make it like HDRP with the name being the only difference, or,

  2. if it doesn’t support it, Ray Tracing will come to mobile eventually and someday become mainstream as the tech advances, and leaving URP without support for it will just break the workflow, because HDRP is not supported on mobile. Now to the solutions…

Solutions:

  • The only possible solution I can think out of this dilemma is to combine URP and HDRP as a single render pipeline, this way we can avoid all the future and current hassles with one RP; As well as considering how convenient it is to new users and fundamental to the workflow.

• This RP should scale to all devices, ranging from low-end mobiles to High-End PCs and Consoles.

Besides all the current problems that’ll vanish due to splitting up the work on two separate RPs. And on top of that, URP is trying hard to be like HDRP, like in how ProductBoard shows it [spoiler]https://portal.productboard.com/unity/1-unity-platform-rendering-visual-effects/tabs/3-universal-render-pipeline[/spoiler]with unnecessary features like Volumetric Fog under -Under Consideration- and the rest of the entire pipeline features that HDRP already offer.

As well as not only combining the two RPs will prevent us from future and current issues, it’s going to actually speed up the workflow of graphics dramatically by focusing on one RP instead of splitting up and duplicating the same work on multiple ones.

TL;DR:

• URP is a pointless investment, everything it offers HDRP already does.

• If HDRP gets supported for mobile, then there was no need even to have a second pipeline in the first place.

• Unity is losing its resources and precious time by focusing on multiple RPs by duplicating the same work.

Unity faces a real dilemma that needs to be solved.

Any feedback is welcome!

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I wish Unity would listen to us… Heck, we’re its community!

I believe Unity has the potential, but, it lacks direction; We could direct it, if they will to listen to us…

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Your post counts tell all, and theres a reason for URP (mobile based) and HDRP (PC/Console based). There will NEVER be as you suggest a “combined single renderer pipeline” between the two. This is just another “do this to make it easier for us” type post, from lazy newbie devs, who dont have a clue.

If this question/statement, was proposed to the Unity Community as a whole, they would eat you alive, including Unity team members…

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Yes, URP and HDRP can’t be combined into one.

But, if we are looking deep into Unity future I think Built-in render pipeline and old code should me removed and replaced with one base render pipeline desined for prototyping and visualization which can be upgraded to Urp or Hdrp.

This would ensure that workflow and shaders have one consistent environment and that asset store creatores don’t have to think of multiple types of assets and versions of SRP.

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This is where you fail… “But, if we are looking deep into Unity future”… your view of “Unitys future”, and development isnt in your control, and i can tell you, your suggestion will NEVER happen, case closed. So why keep proposing, when the end result will be a NO… There is NO WAY Unity will impliment such a senario, the headache of doing so, would uproot all that they have currently set up, as seperate SRPS for seperate purposes.

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One example which I think shouldn’t be hard to do because is on abstract level.

Let’s say you want to create custom depth pass as if second camera for some objects. So this is the editor workflow. This hypotetical base render pipeline would ensure you can upgrade this path to URP or HDRP and have it working.
So this some custom pass can be recognized by URP or HDRP on the abstract level and then render on their own.

This abstraction of SRP would make prototyping easier.

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IDK why are you attacking me personally, but, if you consider a person an “Expert” or a “Noob” based on the “Number” of their posts, then you absolutely live in the dark ages; Sorry, but I’m brutally honest.

And besides, what’s the issue with making things easier? Isn’t that fundamental the workflow?

They would “eat me alive” for expressing an opinion and giving feedback regarding game development?! Enough discussing me, discuss the idea.

  • And yes, Unity has made a big mistake by splitting up the work on two RPs in the first place, because you are duplicating the same work that’s already been done; That, slows down progression moving forward on the long run.

What’s the reason? Can you elaborate?

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Wasnt attacking, more that, i too have issues, and you just get to know how and what Unity will and wont do, even though the idea has validity Feel your pain…

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Ok, let’s put it this way:

Q 1 / Do I believe that Unity will start all over to combine the RPs?

A / Nope, probably Never.

Q 2 / Do I think combining is a solution?

A / Yes, definitely! Better do it now, before it’s ‘too late’.

Q 3 / Do I believe that Unity has made a ‘mistake’ by splitting up the work on two RPs?

A / Yes, Absolutely!

And yes, I know how Unity ‘works’. I’m an old user of Unity that’s been seeing the development of the engine and I can say where they are going. Yes, it’s a pain, but a mistake is a mistake, we can’t change the past, but we can prevent such things from happening in the future. As well as, we are its ‘Community’, the final product is going to be for us, so they should listen to us more.

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This right here… Your not the 1st to suggest a universal, or combined SRP based engine. It seems your more looking to change Unity into Unreal Engine, NOT going to happen, and to be honest, (depending on your project), if your looking for that type of flexability (between SRP’s)…Unity is NOT for you… As trying to change one engine to fit your needs, when another engine fullfills that need, is not logical…So please, move to UE, and stop wasting our Unity time…

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This choice is Not in your hands; And, stop acting like you own Unity engine!

You know what’s not logical? When you see a better approach and a solution to a problem but you insist stubbornly to take the narrower path that leads you to fall in the hole! THAT is illogical.

And btw, I’m still waiting for your answer:

What’s the reason? Can you elaborate?

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I believe the reason is ease of development.
HDRP is not held back by considering mobile and any low-end platforms when making features.
Otherwise, each feature would probably take much longer to develop, you’d also need to optimize things in general and by adding ‘quality’ levels to many features, so that mobile or switch can function with them.

For example, URP does not use compute because of weak hardware.
HDRP does most things in compute. Which scales better with medium-high end hardware. (PC, Console)

URP’s development has been extremely slow, I believe it’s not just the developers/management, but the fact that they have to support Mobile, switch, and other platforms on top of PC and console.
HDRP focuses on PC and console, that’s it.

Features that URP is only now getting in the next update, HDRP has had for years.
If i was using URP, i’d be a bit annoyed by the fact mobile and switch support is holding ME back. I’m not interested in these platforms, but URP developers have to deal with it.
(Although, I don’t think that’s an excuse for how slow URP’s development has been… it’s far too slow, mobile doesn’t excuse that)

You can also focus and do things with HDRP that aren’t really realistic, changes at the foundation of the render-pipeline.
Where in URP, you always have to consider all the other platforms.

HDRP focuses on realism, where URP gives you the ability of unrealistic creativity.
It’s possible in HDRP, but you will be literally fighting the render pipeline and lighting which are meant to be realistic.

HDRP is much more complicated for the normal user, URP isn’t. Lighting alone scares many developers.

Honestly though, I do think 1 render pipeline would’ve been better. It’s really annoying now. Assets/tools compatibility, shaders, and even asking for help is harder now.
I only use HDRP, and have to find others who use HDRP if i need help with something HDRP specific.

All of this considered, I do think there are benefits for separating from each other though. Each render pipeline can focus on their own goal. If this benefit is worth the split, is a different question.

–
on a different note, combining the two now is a bad idea. It’s too late. Only option is to continue.

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There’s 3rd option. If mobile hardware and switch hardware system evolutionize extremely over next few years, they could run HDRP. I believe they are maybe 1 or 2 mobile hardware generations away to use compute.

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THAT is the problem I’m all talking about, when that happens, URP will be pointless as mobiles will eventually support compute/ray tracing as the tech advances… It’s a really pointless investment, Unity should have done better… I wish Unity better luck next time!

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ideally things would move that fast, but nowadays we have an RTX 2070, RTX 3070/3080, AMD equivalent, all for good prices.

And yet the vast majority are still using GTX 1060(not even 1080 or 70), GTX 1050 TI, and GTX 1650.
Same thing with mobile phones, actually, i think it’ll be much worse for phones. Most people for a very long will stick to cheap phones.

When the vast majority do upgrade, URP will be pretty capable by that time. HDRP will be even more so, again with things that are tough or infeasible to do on mobile.

I think raytracing is far away, even now on PC the vast majority don’t have access to it. Imagine mobile.

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PutridEx,

To be honest, I must say I agree on some points and disagree with others… I will start with what I disagree with:

HDRP is not held back by considering mobile and any low-end platforms when making features.

I disagree with this; Why? Because:

  1. Now you have two teams: URP/HDRP team… imagine them being 1… wouldn’t development be much faster?

  2. Even if they are one team (HDRP team), that when they implement a feature to HDRP, they then deploy it to URP… now imagine that whole process and time of deploying was invested on HDRP/one RP… wouldn’t have much more features and improvements on the long run?

you’d also need to optimize things in general and by adding ‘quality’ levels to many features, so that mobile or switch can function with them.

The thing is: There was a better approach to this, for example:

Highlighting features on HDRP as ‘suitable’ for mobile/switch… and the rest of features that are not '‘too demanding’ on current mobile/switch capabilities… you have so many solutions to this instead of splitting it to two RPs… plus, they added mobile simulator and samsung adaptive to optimize it, as well as you have profiler, and so many others… it’s not an excuse, it’s only a way of execution… imagination is your only limit!

And I agree with the rest(One RP better for assets, shaders, etc).

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Although, I agree that most people still don’t even have RTX or AMD equivalent, however, that time will eventually come, when it’s the ‘norm’… Tech moves extremely fast… I don’t look to one or even two years, I look beyond that, and what will happen to the pipelines, so we can save it sooner not later…

And btw, RTX on PC is becoming more and more standard as more people are buying it… not even mentioning that consoles PS5/Xbox now have them… it’s really a matter of short time coming to mobile…

You’d say far away if you were in 2017/2018… now we’re almost 2022… it’s not far away, it’s really close…

Look up S22 Series ray tracing [spoiler]https://www.techradar.com/news/samsung-galaxy-s22s-chipset-could-support-ray-tracing[/spoiler]

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Usually, adding more engineers after a certain point doesn’t increase productivity. Especially on a complex piece of software like unity. Although both HDRP & URP need more haha.
Seeing how many features in HDRP are done by one or two people :smile:
and URP’s snail pace development speed.

The suitable mobile approach is nice in theory, but would play very different in reality. You will get complaints left and right by developers about it. “Why can’t I use this? If i cant use it, why is it here!? my project needs this feature!”
Obviously you’ll explain it to them, if they accept it or not is a different question, and then on to the next person.

And then you’ll make your render pipeline much more complex. Mobile developers most likely will not appreciate that. Especially when you consider the biggest money makers on mobile aren’t ones with high-fidelity graphics.
URP provides that for them, simple and direct, and it supports all the platforms they’d want.

RTX is here now yes, but still quite behind. the ones with the majority share are still ages old GPUs like GTX 1060, GTX 1050 TI, and so on. And until these are gone, we will always have to consider the lowest denominator, so you can’t really go all out.

For example I have had to drop an asset that makes my game look better, because it adds 4-6ms on the GPU with my GTX 1070. It’s just too expensive. If i only had to consider users with RTX 2070 and up, I would happily keep it, but the far majority are still ones with old GPUs

I think it would be much worse for mobile. They wouldn’t really be worth much consideration until they have a good market share, and that will probably take much longer on mobile, even after it picks up.

If raytracing does become important though, I don’t see why URP can’t add it.
It won’t make HDRP or URP useless, HDRP will always have more high-end features.
URP will always be simpler/more direct to use. And isn’t limited visually by what’s realistic.
That’s one of the things mobile developers care most about.

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This would’ve been a good idea at the start, and worth consideration, but to do it now is just too late. They invested far too much into HDRP and URP, and WE invested too much into them.

And if anyone has hope or trust left in unity’s employees and management, it would completely shatter. If you think their image is bad in the eyes of developers, it would be far worse after this.

It’s also important to consider workflow. They’re different between each other, if combined, how would it look? I believe it would be a big con for many URP developers.

I sometimes use URP for simple prototypes because it’s simpler/easier to get around.
There aren’t that many settings, where HDRP is seriously LOADED with options left and right.
Which is a good thing for the target it has, but i doubt it’ll be appreciated by all URP developers.

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PutridEx,

The suitable mobile approach is nice in theory, but would play very different in reality. You will get complaints left and right by developers about it. “Why can’t I use this? If i cant use it, why is it here!? my project needs this feature!”
Obviously you’ll explain it to them, if they accept it or not is a different question, and then on to the next person.

And then you’ll make your render pipeline much more complex. Mobile developers most likely will not appreciate that. Especially when you consider the biggest money makers on mobile aren’t ones with high-fidelity graphics.
URP provides that for them, simple and direct, and it supports all the platforms they’d want.

  • Yeah, I agree that this a downside of it, and I believe almost everything has pros and cons (and complaints!)… But, considering the ‘pro’ side of it, they’ll know Unity better, and how Unity is, well, Unified -No pun intended-! I think that’s where it shines in my humble opinion.

RTX is here now yes, but still quite behind. the ones with the majority share are still ages old GPUs like GTX 1060, GTX 1050 TI, and so on. And until these are gone, we will always have to consider the lowest denominator, so you can’t really go all out.

  • That’s right currently, but it’s changing… considering Consoles now have 'em -ray tracing-, and mobiles are starting all out, PC shouldn’t be far behind this! Can we be sure/exact and tell when RTX will be the vast PC majority? I don’t think so, it’s close, but only time will tell! Good time I spent talking with you btw… :slight_smile:
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