For an intelligent guy who loves to think, sometimes I don’t think about what I’m doing!
I began a project (my first project) roughly a year ago. It began as an experiment to find out if I could do it. At some point someone suggested I turn it in to a fully fledged game. I liked that idea, and so on I went.
Now I’m studying at a University with almost no time to work on it. Its not even something I want to work on any more. It just hit me a few minutes prior to typing this up that the project was growing increasingly complex when I worked on it. That it’s complexity was becoming difficult to manage; and significant, visual progress difficult to make. I just got fed up/bored with it!
There comes a time when you work on anything enough that you can recall nearly every line of source And you balk at doing so because you have intimate knowledge of it.
IDK. I was expecting to at least create some mid-range PC game right off the bat. I was hoping to maybe inspire someone who would like to join me. I guess even those are lofty goals. I managed to get three subscribers on Youtube where I posted video’s, but I’ve lost two of them.
I’m a stubborn soul, too. You tell me not to do something and I’ll do it anyway because that’s what I want to do. I think in the future I’ll have to tackle smaller projects. I’ll have to expect less from what I am doing, and less from myself because to be honest: I may have experience with programming, but making games is something I’m very new to.
Also I think there’s something to be gained from doing things the wrong way. Someone tells you X is bad for you. You do it anyway and you learn and experience the how and WHY X is bad for you. Without that I think you will always be left wondering. What would have happeened if I…?
In addition to what has already been mentioned: I really dislike creating Art. Its cool and stuff but there’s something about it that just isn’t rewarding to me. It got really irritating seeing my “spaceship” fly around as a 1x1x1 cube with guns floating off the sides. So I broke down and spent a month or two learning Blender3d, normal mapping software (to some degree) and Photoshop. It was that or pay someone to make art for a game I wasn’t sure I was going to finish.
Nothing wrong with high goals. All the failures underneath you eventually pile up until you can reach your goal. You just have to realize that probably aren’t working on that goal, you’re working on a failure to help you reach a goal.
You can’t count on people to collaborate with you. There is an insignificantly minuscule number of successful projects from collaboration relative to the failed number of them and that ratio is even worse the closer to the lower end of the skill/quality spectrum you are operating in.
Personally I’ve found that making good tools for your target project is a great way to start. All projects will eventually become difficult to manage on your own and complexity is best managed by having a good framework or foundation. You’ll probably refactor systems many times in favor of sustainable maintenance, flexibility and ease of use as the project moves along.
All in all, you just have to make the necessary choice; scrap it and do something else or keep pounding at it until you get what you want. It depends on your personality and current skill level.
You learn from the experience thats the most important thing.
You will likely never make anything “cool” on your own and “Free” collaboration’s never really work well. It is hard making games. Same as if you wanted to create a really cool movie on your own. The chance for you to be both a great script writer, photographer and actor is highly unlikely.
Would de-scoping the project down to something that is manageable re-motivate you? If not probably should scrap and move on to the next thing.
Sounds like you already have the base gameplay in tact.
Sometimes reducing the scope to something that can be accomplished increases motivation to push ahead, and once you get closer to the finish line - finishing should be a motivating factor in itself.
Odd - you didn’t find replacing your cube with floating gun boxes with some art you created rewarding?
Does this mean I have a new buddy to run around the noob threads saying ‘scope smaller’? Welcome to the club.
To preserve your sanity I should tell you that this endeavour is about as sensible and likely I work as your game was. So it might not be worth getting into.
haha <3! my advice is to go to GDC or another game dev conference. You’ll meet a ton of devs with similar stories, but for some reason when we all get together, we get inspired like crazy! Who knows, you may even meet an artist buddy over an over-priced adult beverage in the lobby of the W. Its why I left my other adventures to do the indie thing full time. You all inspire me like crazy <3 this post does too <3
I can relate to your problems very well I am working on a project for a couple of years now but eventhough I made lots of progress it’s such a big undertaking that sometimes I question my own sanity. I ask myself why do I even want to achieve these ridiculous goals in the first place? Okay it’s not impossible I have proven myself that by now but I’m far from done. Iin fact complexity seems to increase every step I make but I guess that has something to do with my inexperience so I just proceed with whatever I’m doing. Nobody teached me how to do what I need to have done and I take it you are self taught as well at least that’s the impression I’m having.
However, I see there is light at the end of the tunnel because you exactly know what you should be doing different you even said it out loud. Just do what feels right to you because in the end you might feel sorry for not doing it. Don’t give up and you’ll get there. Ups and downs is what you’ll get that’s guaranteed hehe.
Absolutely. Well, unless it takes you 10 years to figure it out. If it only took you a year, I’d say you’re doing pretty well!
There’s also the Unity asset store and other content stores. That doesn’t work for many games, but especially for a 3D space game, you can get pretty far if you don’t mind spending a little cash. It’s certainly cheaper than commissioned artwork.
I enjoy attempting artwork, I’m just no good at it. In 3D, even if you know the tech details of creating PBR textures, a modeling package, etc, the design/artist side of it is something that would take me a long time to develop. Even then, if you have the technical and artistic skills to pull off cool stuff, it’d still be a huge time sink. It takes so much time to develop gameplay systems and specific missions, etc that I’ve learned to not even attempt artwork for the most part.
This is a super important thing to learn. Think about how you can manage this in the future.
Also, someone mentioned scope. When I do any project I try to keep the scope as small as possible. Always start with a “minimum viable product”. If you get that done and people love it you can always expand it, and it’ll take you much less time to find out. If you’re selling it then you’ll get initial income sooner, and a bit of extra income later from people who upgrade, and two products on the store instead of one. On the other hand, if you start with the expanded thing and people don’t love it… you can’t get that time back! And if you’re selling it you don’t get initial income for longer and you only have one product on shelves.
Another thing I try to do is pull the pins early on any project that’s going nowhere. Some people call this “Fail Fast”, and it’s more or less the same idea… I just don’t like that name because I’m not seeking to fail. The point is to identify if a project is going nowhere as early as possible, and then get out of it so that you can put time into the next one, which might be a success. Essentially, it’s about identifying wastes of time quickly so you can filter them out.
To that end, I try to get things a) presentable and b) testable as soon as possible. I then set about validating the project with real people. Is my game engaging? If not, is it something I can address, or is it a fundamental flaw with the concept? If it’s addressable, what might the time and cost be, and are they worth it?
You should also weigh up decisions about what you add to or change about your game with a similar ideology. Will this make the game better? Is it worth the time and cost? Is it something I can do to the next version instead? Will it get me closer to or further from being finished?
F***k… and I just spent the whole day working on it because I didn’t see that second line! >:) only joking, but I like your sense of humor xD
Good inputs. For some reason up until this point whenever I heard someone mention MVP I thought “Make a small, finished game”. Now I think it means “make the core mechanics of your game and see what kind of interest you get from there”.
@theANMATOR2b I just don’t like the process of digital art creation. Its tedious, repetitive and frustrating. I KNOW WHAT YOU’RE THINKING: programming is the exact same thing but 5x worse! and I have no suitable answer to that.
@ I don’t know if your response was intentionally just plain rude or not but I found it really irksome.
That is what it means. The “VP” are “viable product”, so if it’s not ready for sale it’s not an MVP. But…
… this is prototyping, and you should do that too. Even an MVP takes a heck of a lot longer than a prototype. So do a prototype to see if an MVP is worth the effort, and if the MVP turns out to be a success then go back to the stuff you left on the cutting room floor and see what’d make it better.
It’s actually good advice. There are plenty of people around that write soulless corporate software by day and games by night. For many of us it’s a solid, safe, way to ensure the kids get fed on the rent gets paid on time.
What did you expect exactly? For me to give you warm fuzzy feelings because you’re one in many millions to stop making a game then complain about it? So I’m not really fussed if you found it “irksome” a bit of hard truths go a long way.
Artwork is an essential part of games, so learn to love it / tolerate it or do something else.
As for the rest, you set out on a venture and life got in the way. It happens, unless your plan was to release it as a commercial venture you’ve not lost out. You didn’t do it the “wrong” way, just followed a path most developers go down.
Some have the time, initiative and skill to finish it off / release and be successful. Some dev’s learn a lot from the venture, now being able to work within their limitations and others deem it to difficult / games are not for them and quit.
Either way, you gained an answer and a perspective on games design / limitations as a whole. For a beginner it’s a huge success in my book…
@ What was I expecting? Non-cynical, constructive responses. Your first message came off with sarcastic implications, and a lack of basic respect. I’ve never said I deserve to be “revered” or something just asking that people who talk to me give me the same respect they would someone they were conversing with in reality.
…I’m trying so hard to voice my opinion without saying something which would lead to a ban. -.-
You don’t know who I am. But I recognize that username. Don’t talk to me.
Well I apologise if I offended, that wasn’t my intention or intended purpose.
Although a little bit of an over-reaction maybe? In short, artwork is a must and I actually gave you a compliment towards the end. Sure I can be as blunt as a hammer some times, but I mean well…
I’d be the same face to face, but smiles and giggles are a lot easier to read than text. Anyway best of luck to ya.!
But this is the internet. Its like my favorite place evor to talk down to people. Like im so bloody amazing. I definitely havnt been working on my passion project for like 4 years (although that sounds like I work on it with some consistency)
Being constructive here, what were you expecting? In regards to the game’s development, I mean, not responses on the Internet.
It’s pretty common for expectations to a) go unexamined and/or b) not match up with reality. The latter is true even for experienced people because humans suck at predicting the future, and it’s something that can’t really be helped. But the former? You can compare your expectations to your actual experiences after you’ve given something a go and learn a fair bit from it. What, if anything, did you expect? Why did you expect it? Why did reality not turn out that way? Was there anything in your power you could do in the future to help things work out better? Should you also adjust your expectations next time?
Just remember that the goal is to learn things that lead to positive experiences. Don’t get bogged down in reflection to the point that you become a pessimist and/or cynic.
If it only took you a year, I’d say you’re doing pretty well!
The point is to identify if a project is going nowhere as early as possible, and then get out of it so that you can put time into the next one, which might be a success. Essentially, it’s about identifying wastes of time quickly so you can filter them out.