Which engine should we use for our browser based MMORPG

News & General Discussion
1

My community is in the design stages of a 2D browser-based MMORPG project, but we currently have no programmer hired so I decided to turn to you guys to help make the decision of which engine to use. We have decided that we will build it in either a Flash engine, a Java engine, or Unity.

Here are the pros and cons of each as far as I can see:

Flash
Pros: Plug-in required to play is the most popular of the three plug-ins (almost any browser would support the game without requiring the player to take the time to download a plug-in)
Cons: Supposedly a weak language for complex games; not many Flash MMORPG engines out there to choose from.

Java
Pros: Supposedly much more powerful than Flash; many Java MMORPG engines to choose from.
Cons: Plug-in required to play is not as popular as Flash.

Unity
Pros: We could make the game into iOS and Android apps (maybe?)
Cons: Would require almost every player to first download the Unity plug-in

The priority of course is to get the most amount of players possible to play the game for the longest amount of time possible. With this in mind, it seems that Unity would be the best choice because it would allow deployment to the iPhone/iPod and Android technologies…I think. It seems that ports would require so many interface changes that much more effort would be required than “one click” as multi-platform deployment is advertised. I’m not ever sure it would be feasible with a MMORPG; please someone clear this up for me.

Then again, it seems a Flash MMORPG–if viable–would also bring a large crowd due to the fact that over 95% of the players wouldn’t have to download anything (which is rather the point of a browser-based MMORPG to begin with).

Java is only an option if neither the Flash platform nor mobile deployment is feasible.

Please consider the pros and cons of each engine and give your input on which foundation we should use!

2

For one, Java’s a pain.
Dev will not be cheap and we’ve had huge headaches because there are often updates to the java runtime and existing code stops working or new stuff doesn’t work on old java releases.

I don’t think the unity plug-in is much of a hurdle for people. If your screenshots look cool, people will not hesitate.

After making games in both Java and flash, I personally would recommend unity. However, I’m using it because of it’s 3d abilities.
Also, C# programmers will probably be easier to find and cheaper.
You’ll probably kick yourself in a year’s time if you go with anything other than unity and then decide to port the game to mobile.

My 2c.

JK

3

I have a lot of experience in Java and am currently working on an 3d game engine for android which uses mostly java (with some heavy lifting done in C++ using JNI). 3d with Java is very painful. Things that are so simple in C++ such as model loading is so inefficient in Java that you are either forced to optimize the algorithm and hope that it speeds things up sufficiently, or use JNI which is not really hard but more annoying than anything. Unless you have either a lot of talented programmers with lots of java experience, or have a lot of time on your hands and are patient enough for your programmers to figure out how to make an engine, then you are better off using Unity. Also, if you go the custom engine route, don’t forget that you would also need all kinds of tools to go along with it such as level designers, model converters, etc… Unity really does streamline everything by giving you everything you need all in one spot.

4

Thank you two for the detailed answers. We will probably go with Unity, but there is one more thing I would like addressed before we make a final decision: how much complication would there be in releasing a 2D Unity MMORPG on multiple platforms (browser, iOS, Android)? I ask because a mobile version of the game would have to run on an entirely different screen size and have a heavily altered interface.

5

You can use conditional compilation to alter how the interface is displayed on different devices, which will mean you can keep all your code in one cohesive block as opposed to multiple branches.

Honestly, how the user interface looks on a mobile device is going to be the least of your problems if you’re making a multi-platform MMORPG.

6

While 3D with java may be painful, his game is entirely in 2D.

That makes the 3D negatives of saying “Dont use Java” to him pretty much irrelevant.

I only made this post because of the exessive amount of people who seem to include 3D information for developers who repeatedly say it’ll all be 2D. Every thread I make about 2D (irrelevant of Unity) I am told to “Make it 3D instead.” as if they failed to read the 2D part.

7

Why, and how do you know this?

8

There is a huge UI difference between mobile and pc.
It’s possible that mobile actually requires a totally different build, or even a different engine.
Perhaps look at some games that run on both - the sims is the first thing that comes to mind.
The main thing to consider is if your vision of the game actually works on mobile. A MMORPG usually has many UI items that can clutter the display.

I wouldn’t totally rule out flash - again if it suits your vision of the game.
How much of the total game are you doing yourself? There are existing sites that offer micro-transactions and in-game advertising for flash. Do you need things like that in your game?
Flash isn’t actually a very weak language - I just think there aren’t a lot of people that know how to use it well.

9

Great point.

The game would need to be able to be fully played ON the mobile, which means either a really nice convention of innovative UI tailored towards mobile, or a predisposition towards mobile platform being the native platform.

10

Well. I’ve made, multi-platform, high-capacity multimedia applications in my day job. Granted, they weren’t MMORPGs but they certainly utilized a lot of similar technology, and were (and are!) put up under the same kinds of stresses. Now, I don’t know what your MMORPG will be, but going by the classical definition of what an MMORPG is, I feel you will be tearing your hair out over the following issues:

Networking and server architecture / programming
Security (both user and cheat prevention)
The sheer amount of content that goes in an MMORPG
An intriguing game play that will be enough for players to fork over money
Designing many different systems (quests, pathfinding, AI, items) and then scaling them up to an MMORPG

11

Client entirely depends on the game you are making. A “2d mmorpg” doesn’t tell much. Is it point click or more action oriented and such.
Hell if you want you can even use flash for desktops and unity for phones.
I once worked on an online action game in flash and it’s rather annoying compared to making online games in unity.

12

hmm… I believe that guy who said a MMORPG can be made in 2 months. I know of at least one that was made in even shorter than that.

Games are what you make them, and development time depends on an infinite number of variables.

13

Oh, awesome. Definitely worth listening to you then :stuck_out_tongue:

I apologize if it seemed rude to ask. I just see more often than not people giving complex technical advice without any experience or knowledge in the area.

“It’s gonna be impossible, dude!”
‘Well, do you know how to PROGRAM?’
“No, but it’s impossible, dude!”

LOL. Of course, it seems we are more likely to see experienced users giving solid advice here than at mmorpg.com, where every 26 year old thinks they know everything despite the fact they dont even know how to program, create art, or think logically :stuck_out_tongue:

So forgive me for wondering why people say things sometimes, especially about mmorpg’s. I’ve just been around mmorpg.com forums for way too long, and as you know everyone there is an expert programmer, artist, designer, developer, businessman, and lawyer doctor surgeon astronaut.

I mean, if two experienced programmers can make a mmorpg in 2 months from scratch, I imagine using Unity and my high art skills, I can make a decent one in 2 years, especially since I can always ask them for advice. And if the "Now, I don’t know what your MMORPG will be, but " was directed at me and my mmorpg, then I entirely disagree!

You completely forgot I’ll ALSO be pulling my hair out on:

Art
Animation
Programming in general
Finances
Making a simple game, or a fun one. Forget about content!
Web Design
Everything.

I’m like homer simpson, in that I lost ALL of my 19 months ago when I started my MMORPG, and lost my scalp 9 months ago when I started becoming an artist.