Why did "Zombies" do so poorly?

…and, how do you think it could be improved?

Back around 2005, I and a friend developed a turn-based tactical game called Zombies. Game play takes place on a grid. Units are either Humans or Zombies, and Humans can be in any of three states: Clueless, Panicked, or Aware. You only control the Aware humans, which are listed on the right (you can select one to move either by clicking them on the gameboard, or in the list). Panicked humans run around at random, and Clueless ones just stand there. An aware unit can inform a clueless one, or calm a panicked one, by moving into them.

Each unit has 1-3 hit points. When a human gets reduced to 0 hit points, it becomes a zombie; when a human is reduced to 0 hit points, it is destroyed.

Humans can attack unarmed, but there are also a variety of weapons scattered around the map (axe, pistol, shotgun, pitchfork, torch, etc.). Each of the weapons has a different behavior; torches, for example, not only do damage, but can catch zombies on fire, which can sometimes spread to neighboring zombies. Ranged weapons can attack from some distance away; melee weapons require stepping right up. Finally, it matters which way units are facing; you’ll do more damage attacking from behind, and also zombies are more likely to attack a unit ahead of them than to turn around and attack one behind.

On each turn, you get to do up to three actions with each of your Aware units (the white dots in the list on the right show how many actions they have left; the red bars are hit points). After you’ve moved all your units, the zombies all move. They move according to fairly simple rules (though there is a small bit of randomness to it).

The game is tactically quite deep. Winning (particularly on the harder difficulty levels) requires carefully balancing a lot of factors: informing/calming other units vs. attacking zombies, going for better weapons vs. attacking with what you’ve got, and planning your moves so as to attack a zombie with several units at once, so your attackers don’t end up converted into more zombies. I feel that each game (which takes about 10-20 minutes) has a good tension curve, as initially the number of zombies tends to increase, and then finally you either have enough well-armed Aware units to overwhelm them, or they overwhelm you.

When I was designing this, I prototyped it with a very crude UI where the units were simply colored squares on a grid. I found it fun, and the folks in the forum I hung out on in those days agreed it was fun to play. So, I thought that when we prettied it up and added sound effects, adjustable gore levels, etc., it would be a hit.

But, it was not. We released it to the Mac App Store, and was greeted with the sound of chirping crickets. Our total sales was something like 4 or 5 units.

(If you want to try it, you can download it for Mac here, or for Windows here, though these files are over 10 years old, and I’m not sure how well they work on modern OSes.)

So. We’re now kicking around the idea of rewriting this in Unity for modern platforms. But it’s not going to be worth it if it meets with the same indifference as before.

I’ve wondered if maybe it’s just too much of a “thinking person’s game” for the theme. Perhaps people looking for zombie games expect something less cerebral and more button-mashy.

What do you think? Is this fundamentally flawed as a concept? Is there any way to make it more appealing?

Thanks,

  • Joe
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Hard to say the game itself is flawed. It actually sounds interesting to me. A game with some depth to it! :slight_smile:

You prototyped well then you polished it replacing the graphics and so forth. What did you do for marketing? Just wondering if maybe the lack of success was simply due to it being a very solid yet very unknown game?

Marketing?!?

Yes, you’re right, we didn’t do anything at all about that. That is undoubtedly my greatest weakness… I cling to the belief that if you build a great game, people will find it. But that’s almost never true today, and may not have been true in 2005 either.

So, it’s certainly possible that that was the main problem.

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The name is terrible. It fails the “can you Google it?” test, for one thing.

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Yes, that’s certainly true enough. Better ideas? Zombies are certainly a key feature, but it’d probably be good to also somehow imply that this is not a shooter, smasher, beat’em-up, slasher, RTS, or any other sort of action game. And while the actual game play is serious, we’re not opposed to injecting a bit of humor into the trappings. Just spit-balling here…

  • Zombie Infection
  • Night of the Dead
  • Zombies: Dawn of Darkness
  • Zombie Tactics
  • Zombie Show-Down
  • Braaaaiiiiiins
  • He Was a Good Man, But Now He’s a Zombie (abbreviated HWAGMBNHAZ)
  • Zombies Rising
  • Zombie Panic

I do agree that almost any of these would be better than the original name. Thoughts?

How the hell am I 'sposed to tell you that when I get a runtime error when I try to run it? Honestly, it looks like something I’d be willing to try. But, without playing it I can’t help you. Ironically, that puts me in the same spot as a complete stranger who knows nothing about your game. From looks alone, since that’s all I can tell from my chair, it doesn’t have a pleasing aesthetic quality. So, if I just had to judge your “book from the cover” I would say it’s not readily appealing.

I really wanted to play it, but oh well.

Hey, no need to get upset — I did mention that the executable was over 10 years old and might not work on modern OSes. I’m sorry about that. If I could easily make a build that runs on modern systems, I wouldn’t be considering a rewrite. :slight_smile:

Thanks, that’s helpful feedback. Characters too chunky? UI too busy? Or something else entirely (if you can put your finger on it)?

Also, when considering remaking this today — particularly for mobile — I wonder if a deep, thinking game where you control every decision is going against the tide (see the thread on auto-mode). Or maybe it is, and maybe that’s a good thing — perhaps games that require you to think and plan will become a niche, and gamers in that niche will be willing to pay a bit more for a quality offering?

My opinion looking at the screenshot, graphics looks pretty bad, I can’t tell whether they’re uv mapped properly, to me it looks like you forget to ‘flip normals’ judging by the dark spots. You can do low poly well, this however, is NOT. Interface is pretty cluttered, font choice ‘trabajon pro’ is just no, no, no same with comic sans. Gameplay, I can’t comment on, I tried the mac download but as it is ten years old it’s pretty much obsolete, got some message to do with ‘power pc.’

But yeah, to sum up, it’s the graphics that kill this, in terms of ‘why wasn’t this a success?’

Hope that helped brah.

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OK managed to get it open under winxp on a vm…

I found myself pressing wasd randomly and hitting enter, I wasn’t quite sure what was going on but the zombies seemed to move, I didn’t read the manual mind you, so take my gameplay reviews with a pinch of salt. I did like the animated menu however, when you bring up the tombstones, I thought that was nicely done for a game 10 years old, but when you have to read a pdf manual to figure out the gameplay it’s a bit much considering most this generation get bored after 10 seconds.

Adding “tactics” to the end is a pretty classic move for a turn-based strategy game, but Zombies Tactics is still way too generic (I’d still be impossible to find via Google). How about “Get 'Em in the Brain, It’s the Only Way To Be Sure: Tactics” or “Remember Your Training and You WILL Survive: Tactics” or “Short, Controlled Bursts: Tactics” or “You Just Don’t Lead Them as Much: Tactics”?

Or more realistically, create a protagonist and name the game after him or her.

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If the problem is that only 4-5 people downloaded it, then why would it be something involving game play?

Iirc, 2005 was before the mobile boom and the whole flappy bird revolution, which meant that peoples expectations for games tended to be closer to AA/AAA.

You were just too ahead of the curve Joe :wink:

In terms of recreating this for today - I would think about re-theming it. Gamers are pretty bored with the whole indie zombie game at this point I think.

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Well, it is just not pretty. Bad colors, bad form. It is what you would expect a CS major with zero artistic talent to produce. It has no visual theme or style, it’s just poorly attempted realism. It begs the question: What were you going for? “It was a dark and blurry night, low rez textures will distract you from the awkwardly shaped geometry, but the menu layout will make you wonder if this is a DOS game.”

Since I can’t play it, that’s what you get.

Also, we live in an era where people don’t shop for games anymore, they shop for genres. Which popular genre does this game fit into? You can choose from Resource Management or Tower Defense. Turn based field combat games are a tabletop nerd niche, too hardcore for the casual player to jump in to.

If you want to make a good virtual board game, you will have 15 die hard fans and 6.5 billion people who aren’t interested.

Who is your target audience?
What genre is this game?
Is that genre popular?
Did you hire an artist?

You can spend $100 on marketing to make $10 in sales if you want, free country. But it’s probably better to just hit that drawing board.

Zombies are still cool, it ain’t zombies.

But imho its not even worth making a game unless you can answer this question: What does this game have to say? What is the take away? What is your one good idea unique to this hame that only JoeStrout can show the world?

It’s not about doing something new, it’s about doing something ordinary in a new way.

True dat. From the screenshot, I see that you got yourself in a state where you’ve lost all your Aware units. You have 5 Panicked units who may calm down and become controllable (or they may run right into a zombie and join the shambling horde).

(Hey, Steve, how about “Shambling Horde” for a name?)

Gameplay is actually pretty simple: you just move your units. Moving into a weapon picks it up. Moving into a clueless or panicked human informs or calms him. Moving into a zombie attacks him. It’s pretty much all movement.

But it could be that the controls for moving them were not intuitive. (It’s: use left/right or A/D to rotate your guy; W or up to move him forward; and S or down to turn him around and move him the other way. Rotation does not count as a move.) On a touch device, we’d have to redesign the controls anyway.

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Yeah, I mean clearly I haven’t studied the pdf manual so my gameplay review is completely unfair, also my graphics review is unfair somewhat, I’m comparing it to some of my work, and yes your game was made 10 years ago so was somewhat ahead of it’s time.

As for how it would do today, personally, I can’t see someone taking the time to figure it out, unless they know you, and have made a concerted effort to understand the game play mechanics. What I would suggest is maybe introduce the strategy simply, bit by bit, almost like a walk through tutorial. So the gameplay unravels as you play it. This would be a good idea, but sadly this generation is too lazy (myself included) to even do this…

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Well, it could be that people went looking for a zombie game, read the app description, and said “What, turn based? I’m looking for a zombie-themed Quake game! Next!”

But, yeah, I suspect it may have more to do with presentation (i.e. graphics).

Hmm, could be. But the thing is, “zombie” isn’t just a theme here — it’s a core design element. The whole thing was designed around the idea that your units, when defeated, turn into enemy units. So there is this really interesting tension where putting your guys into battle too quickly (unsupported or ill-equipped) may actually end up strengthening the enemy. And this led quickly to the two types of neutral units (clueless and panicked), which can go either way, so you have that initial race to recruit them, while also trying to keep the zombie numbers down at the same time.

If you replaced zombies with pirates or ninjas or something like that, it just wouldn’t make as much sense. Sure, I guess you could claim that when your pirates are sufficiently beaten up, they defect to the other side… but then you’d expect them to behave exactly the same, and they don’t (I also like the asymmetry of zombies, which are stupid and can’t use weapons, but can make more zombies). I suppose you could shoe-horn in a different theme, but it would take a lot of explaining (or be an entirely different game).

Better. :smile:

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is it multi player? co-op? PvP? these type of came usually get better word of mouth marketing success.
If its just single paler you would need a stronger marketing campaign like having youtubers review it.
For myself I probably wouldn’t play it if I couldn’t play with someone else. You would have to have an amazing storyline to hook me into a single player game. when you go to mobile you probably aught to simplify it. if a round lasts 20min… I don’t know who spends 20 mins playing a game on their phone without mass amounts of feedback and achievements.

What do you get when you win?

My partner was (and still is) an experienced professional artist, and for the time and given the constraints we were under, I think he did a great job. The animations are smooth, clouds drift lazily past the moon, dark skeletal trees surround the arena, etc. Yeah, the people are blocky, but they have personality — and each character turns into a unique zombie still vaguely recognizable as the human they used to be (which was quite unusual in that day). The graphics elements combine with good ambient noises (moaning wind, occasional howls in the distance, etc.) to evoke a spooky, Halloween-ish feeling, or so I feel anyway.

But of course opinions can vary, and I asked for yours, so I thank you for giving it. (And I recognize that most of the polish I just mentioned can’t be seen in a screen shot.)

Right, well that’s the core of it, isn’t it? Are there still more than a dozen people who will play this kind of game? I’m not sure. It’s certainly not what is commonly popular, but sometimes you a niche can be a good thing, provided (1) customers in that niche feel under-served and hungry for something new, and (2) you can actually reach them.

The unique idea here is a tactical game based around the zombie (i.e. unit-conversion) mechanic. To me, as a player, that’s fascinating. And rarely done; in almost every zombie game, the zombies are simply targets, which could be replaced by robots, aliens, mutants, animated crash-test dummies, or anything else and work just as well. This is a game where the conversion of “us” into “them” is central. That’s the big idea.

But, just because it’s fascinating to me, doesn’t mean it will be fascinating to anybody else. And there remain the problems of (1) how do I find the people who would be fascinated by it, and (2) how do I get them to try the game long enough to discover how awesome it is? Better graphics and more hand-holding may be part of the answer.

Hmm, good point. No, it’s single-player; the zombie actions are deliberately simple (because, you know, they’re dead after all — not a whole lot of higher mental activity going on). BUT, I can imagine ways to add multiplayer. Two players could each control a separate subset of humans… or, we could have one player control the zombies (who would then be much smarter, and therefore tougher, than normal). That could make for a pretty interesting asymmetrical game, though balance might be tricky.

And when looked at that way, it really does become apparent that this is a virtual boardgame. You could play it with LEGO minifigs on a tabletop (in fact, come to think of it, we may have done a bit of that during the initial prototyping).

Yeah. It’s certainly not a casual game, in the modern sense. (Though being turn-based, you could swap out at any time and pick it up again later.)

The remaining humans jump for joy, there’s some sort of triumphant banner and music, and you get a history graph like this:

(Only without the legend; this is from the manual.)