Why making games is dumb

People on kick start will give money from $1-$10,000 and more to a company that is “going” to make a product. Once your product is done and out on the market it can be played and reviewed and once reviewed people will buy it or not buy it because of the rating or because the art style isn’t to their liking, or maybe the menus aren’t polished enough or the main character doesn’t look cool. Kick starter is genius in the fact that you don’t have to actually make anything, just have an idea and pitch it. If it makes money, then you make it if it doesn’t you start up another campaign and try to get more money out of people. So I say to all the game makers here including myself, stop making games and start making concepts. The concept of your game will make more money than your actual game will. Imagination is what is going to make your game better.

Each person has their own idea of how your actual game will play out and if there is no version of your game to play people will think your game is great because they think of how it should and that’s how they think it will be. Once you have a final product you set in stone what it is, how it plays, what is sounds like but an idea has an infinite amount of ability’s to each person.

I think with all the new on The War Z and that it is very bad shows this concept I am explaining to be true. The game has over 150k Facebook users that like their page but yet the game is considered by most of the media to be horrible. There is a reason they waited for over 4 months once they announced it to show video of game play because imagination rules all.

I believe that we have entered a new era of games, the “Era of the Gamers” this is a good thing for all gamers but it is also going to be the nightmare of many…MANY publishers as the gamers now have the say if a game gets made or not, not the publishers. So hopefully with this era we won’t have 300+ Xbox titles that only a handful of the games made money but more like 50+ games that all do really well.

Take any online retail store website. What does it do? It sells products. Sometimes those products have videos and pictures and information about the product. It’s a sales pitch. How is this different to kickstarter? It isn’t. Kickstarter is just another web-based store where you can buy products. The sales pitch has been adjusted a bit to frame the product and the reason for the product so that you look at it from a different angle than you would if you were just buying the 10 millionth vacuum cleaner. The benefits to the customer are presented well, as should be the case for any successful ecommerce site, including rich content and video etc. It is all a sales pitch. The fact that the products dont exist yet or that their existence is dependent upon something YOU do, simply puts some power into your hands. THAT is really the only way that it differs. It’s basically saying that if YOU don’t buy xyz product, then nobody else is going to be able to buy it either. So it put in your hands responsibility for thinking about everyone else, being part of a group/herd, and belonging. That sense of belonging and cooperating and participating to collectively overcome this artificially-made limitation is what you REALLY get from the deal. The product is relatively unimportant. It is a social phenomenon. People power.

Based on that, and on what you said, there is this evil little aspect of the sales world that begins with an M: Marketing. Sales pitches, spinning, marketing, weaving stories, fantasizing, are all forms of the same thing - trying to get someone to invest belief in a product and infuse it with magical powers of value and meaning that it may not otherwise have. Having done so, the person falls in love with their own projected values that they have been convinced/tricked to putting into the product. They then are not really buying into the product, they’re buying into a fantasy! When the fantasy becomes too far removed from the actual physical product - you know, the boring down-to-earth it-just-made-of-matter-and-does-some-things boring materials - then people start to suspect something and label it “over hyped”. Oops - too much fantasy and game is up. But it is this fantasy that people buy. They don’t buy products. Nobody buys products. People only buy dreams, and spinning/weaving/telling the tale of those dreams in such a way as to enthrall a customer and get them involved is simply another form of that exact same method of getting someone to buy into your fiction. That’s why whenever you sell anything you should be thinking not about what the product IS or its functionalities, but on how it benefits the user and furthermore how you can spin a tale about it that paints a picture of it being something totally more awesome than it actually is. Look at most tv commercials and you’ll see this principle in full effect - e.g. chewing gum… supposedly it blows your senses so much that you have to be strapped into a massive warehouse-sized audiovisual megablast in order for you to understand that it’s THAT powerful. You then aren’t buy icky stretchy sticky chewing gum, you’re buying the fantasy. Another example, shampoo - who the heck cares that your shampoo has deep jungle eucalyptus leaf and african cacoba bean extract? It has nothing to do with making your hair any cleaner. The fact is shampoo is just some stinky chemical you put on your head, but that doesn’t sell - what sells is the lavish luxurious fantasy of shower sexiness wrapped in a blanket of effervescent love bubbles.

So in a way you’re right, sell a concept, let people fantasize over it, add in a back-story, tell about how you are struggling and need the money, give some simple early prototypes or concept art, weave a tall tale and paint a picture in people’s imagination of what THEY want to see in it, and then you only need to deal with the dirty business of actually implementing something if they take the bait. It’s a sorry tale but the fact is this is how the world works. We’re all dreamers buying into dreams. And I’m sure a lot of people will feel like somehow this is really evil and sinful to just exploit people like this… because it flies in the face of what so many people do day in and day out - spiritualize this world and try to make it out to be a fantastic place of wholesome goodness - it isn’t, this entire world is a manipulative insane dream and the kickstarter-style practices simply reveal that ugly truth! But that’s another story. :wink:

I also just want to add that this is part of a bigger social trend towards everyone being more creative in general, the whole Web 2.0 people-centric thing where everyone wants to be a published star. It’s the technologicalization of the ego, if that’s a real word. You see this trend in many places including the likes of Unity itself. Unity is lowering the entry barrier for people to make games and content, thus enabling a much larger audience than ever before to make games. It used to be you’d need to be part of a small niche of programmers in order to even consider this possiblity, but now you don’t even need to program. Game development is going casual, just as the casual games movement came about in recent years. It’s appealing to the mass market. It won’t be long before your granny/grandpa will be participating in making games. I think crowd-sourcing is in its infancy, because the people who are developing the kickstarter projects still have too much of their own self tied up in what gets made. The people are starting to be more empowered to have a say in or a hand in their entertainment, as you can see when kickstarter projects offer to include your ideas or let you create a piece of game content. This is just the start! Soon game development will be a SERVICE where you offer to make whatever game the customers want to play, and they get to basically tell you what the game should do and how it should look and what it includes, and then you make it for them … and most likely the making of it will become so automated and AI-driven that you won’t even have to do much work. Total transparency! Then it will really be games made for the people BY the people. How do you like them apples? Imagine someone sitting in their living room talking to the computer like Star Trek members talked to the Holodeck, telling it what scenario to construct, and it simply goes away and generates the game and fills it all in with procedural content and the player totally loves it because it’s exactly what they wanted, and there is no place in that entire picture for game developers. Scary huh - the end really is nigh! (good timing to say that today, I think :wink:

Totally agree with you imaginaryhuman. Can’t really expand on what has been said you read my mind. As a game developer I am not looking forward to crowd funding my projects because I don’t want to have a democracy when developing.

Sounds like a lot of angst to me. The KS platform is merely a shop, with more risk than normal. It will go downhill at some point or get stable. Just get on with making more games.

You forgot to factor in the fun factor.

Making games might be ‘dumb’, but it’s a hell of a lot of fun and there is nothing work-related that I get excited about more.

This. Also weren’t the conditions on KS changed so you now have to at least have some working prototype in place? Or was that just for hardware products?

You keep making ‘concepts’ and Not games,…we’ll see how long it will take people to catch on and drive you under the bridge,…ehhee

Heh,…if being indie can keep the trolling masses of ‘internet democracy’ out of my game then I will be indie till I die!

Advice is one thing,…but giving the masses more power is just feeding the age of entitlement brats who,…

now git off my lawn! :slight_smile:

Hovering creative Directors is bad enough,…multiply that by Internet.

I get enough of this at my real job :stuck_out_tongue:

Kickstarter backers don’t get a say in how you make your game. Also, please direct me to all these successful kickstarter campaigns that were for “just concepts” (that means absolutely no functional prototype to show) that weren’t coming from industry giants with proven track records.

I wasn’t saying only to make concepts and not the game(you would be sued if you didn’t actually make the game like that code hero game) but before you make any of the game you can just make concepts and pitch them and sometimes you don’t even have to make the concept but just talk about it. We make games to be fun, but we also want some revenue so we can do it as our job. By just making concepts you can make just as much if not more money than you would by making a game. So you can either spend months and design, develop, distribute your game and make some amount of money or you can spend a weekend, think of a game pitch it, make money, then develop. I prefer option two. The whole point of this is to stop developing games and just make concepts and see what people want rather than make a game and pray there is an audience for it. And to PrimeDerektive, kick starter backers have the entire say in how your game gets made because they have to donate to fund it. I was saying that most kick starter project have a very open development process meaning they show of concepts and design pieces and then ask the people to vote on them. While you don’t have to do this it is become more standard with the projects since people basically want to see what their money is doing for them. I enjoy making games, and the whole topic of making games is dumb means that unless you just want to make games for fun and don’t care about making money then make games all day but development cycles are becoming too long to pray that you get those big number sales, in order to make money without spending months or even years working on something you have to kick start it. Not saying that every game from here on out will be kickstarted but saying that it’s a smarter idea to sell concepts that took a week to make and re make vs selling an actual game that took months to make.

There is something to be said for lettting your game idea be tested before a lot of time is spent on implementing it.

As far as the masses throwing their money at crap over hype, well a sucker is born every minute. If you want to be successful at games, that is the dark side, the way of the Sith, the Jedi makes games because they love game development. The dark side promises you success if you’re willing to give yourself over to it and cheat people, but ultimately leads you to ruin.

I tried to approach kickstarter without a functioning demo (but a very strong concept / pre-development) and it failed completely to raise the funding.

On kickstarter for games, unless you have a huge name you NEED to bring a demo with you. Actually, the closer to finished the better you can raise funding to make it. For some strange reason apparently people think ideas are like water and it is actually the coding / getting a sprite sheet animated in an engine that is 90 percent of the battle with making a great game ~_~

For indie gaming, there really isn’t a source to get money from the start. You need to part-time it, scrap together whatever you can… and once you are much further along (the hard part is over), THEN you will have an easier time finding people to give you money that want to jump on board to try and profit from what you did.

If you DO find someone to jump on early with some tiny amount of funding (enough for you to live off of while working over full-time), they will want to raid your company (huge ownership percentages of not just the project, but your entire company). Some publishers will even want full ownership of the IP if they fund you (so, basically you are getting the honor of making a game and after that handing it all over to them).

That is why most indie games are quick projects that can be done as soon as possible and at extremely low costs. Luckily, that also means you can easily cut through 90 percent of the noise if you just slow down a little bit and put in a little TLC on your game. You just need to figure out a way to fund the time it takes to do that.

A: The Code Hero devs aren’t being sued. It was an empty threat from a backer, used to get a response from the developer. They are, in fact, responding to inquiries.

B: You can’t sue a KS project. There’s no legally binding contract involved. In fact, KS themselves say as much.

And no, the backers don’t have any say in your development. You present to them, if they like it, they back it. You then go on to develop it however you’d like. Most projects provide updates, but they don’t often accept feedback from their backers, let alone adhere to it or change their game because the backers said so.

I thought the point was that the backers had not received their rewards and thought I’d read that all the money had been spent so the developer could no longer pay to even get the cheap t-shirts that were offered as a reward printed. Despite the fact that really the t-shirt funding should have been ring-fenced from the KS budget at the very start. If this is the cases then legal action would be possible as something was promised and not delivered. Obviously I suspect the approach was more to force some reply or feedback from the developer, rather than take actual legal action.

I’m pretty sure there is a binding contract with regards to backers and the rewards though, especially if those rewards are tangible and not directly part of the project being funded (e.g. t-shirts).

yep - from KS help/FAQ

It must be particularly galling to those backers to have read in the Q A “We tried to raise more money to pay for the shirts and rewards and a second round of funding, but that didn’t work out.”

I’d say, reading between the lines, the dev is in one sticky situation.

Ah, they must have changed it with their new ToS. Originally, they just basically said, “we work on an honor system. Play nice.” Well, I suppose that’s a good thing then.

Kinda shifty on Kickstarter’s end, considering they take their fee, then when you can’t deliver, you have to pay back the full amount (which you didn’t actually receive).

Anyway. Yes, Code Hero looks like it was managed very poorly, but no, they’re not being sued. They also weren’t a scam. They actually have early builds of the game out. This is certainly not the first KS project to miss its mark, but I don’t know of any successfully funded KS project that turned out to be a scam.

Nope pretty sure that requirement I quoted has been there from the beginning, whilst its always been expected that actual delivery of the project may or may not happpen.

True, but then we start to come down to Semantics. Personally i’d say something this badly managed is a scam as there was never any chance of backers receiving anything. They’ve yet to even deliver the alpha that has been promised many times, even last week when this all kicked off. People argue that he didn’t do a ‘runner’, but again its semantics. Whether he jetted off to some island with the KS money or spent it all on coding, if there is nothing to show for it in the end (not sure an alpha really counts) then i’d certainly feel scammed. Its all the same result.

Of course this is the danger of backing something on KS and why I don’t think the OP is necessarily right in that you should just post concepts. I can certainly see the appeal of doing so and it can or rather could have acted as a great barometer, but I think this market place is just going to get harder and harder to get backing for games and so concepts will just not fly, unless its from an established and trusted creator.

Having said that I wonder if there is an opportunity here (assuming someone hasn’t already done so, which they probably have) to set up a website thats a mix of KS and Steam Greenlight, where people vote, perhaps with some token monetary value (too weed out trolls/greifers a little bit) on game concepts they’d like to be seen made.

Are you sure? I swear I remember some were it used to say that it was up to you to hunt the creator of the campaign… but not kick starters problem if anything happened.

Yep pretty sure since I seem to remember quoting this before, when KS first started becoming a talking point on here. In addition if you read the wording it would be very weird for them to have added it later. I.e. they had rewards from the start but then added ’ We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don’t.’ To me that sounds exactly like rewards were added so that they could have a legal requirement that would not be possible (or rather convoluted) for the end product.

No, I looked into that specifically (probably a year or so ago), and it outright said that there was nothing legally binding to KS, and if the backers wanted to try to pursue legal action, it was entirely on them.

And I think there’s a world of difference between someone deliberately swindling you out of your money and someone who simply screwed up and failed to deliver. One is a person being criminal, the other is a person being inexperienced. I’ll hunt someone down if they deliberately stole from me, but if they just screwed up, I’d either let it go, or see what I can do to help.

One thing I’m toying with is the idea of making a small game that needs Unity Pro features… although I don’t have Unity Pro, so I was thinking to make it in Unity Free with some kind of slower workarounds and then set up a kickstarter to be able to buy Unity Pro/iOs Pro licenses … so like $2500 or so target amount … if you had a pretty much completed game to show up-front do you think this would work?