As solo devs are we trying to do too much, as in are we a jack of all trades and master of none. I find myself being a stickler for perfection, so I tend to want to do everything myself, from programming to animation texturing sounds gameplay and script( which I’m currently now swatting up on). - all without any assets from the store either.
Following a recent discussion it was brought to my attention that something like story telling requires a lot more thought than I originally gave it credit.
Being an young indie with no pools of money as a resource encourages solo workflow, is this good or bad what do you think? How has it shaped YOU and where YOU are now?
I think it’s bad. If you want to be running a business, then it makes sense to do it efficiently. That means taking every shortcut you can get your hands on. Including the asset store for content that’s not game critical.
It also makes sense to spend some time not being indie. Working for someone else is a great way to learn the ropes of the business.
This seems backwards to me. I haven’t managed to get perfect at one thing yet, let alone becoming perfect at everything.
If something doesn’t fall within my skills then I know I’m better off getting someone with appropriate skills to do it instead, if possible.
Beyond that, though, trying to get things “perfect” often isn’t a great idea anyway. It takes a heck of a lot more time than making something that’s "excellent’ or even just “good”, and those are hard enough as it is, and how often will people actually notice the difference?
I noticed this “solo workflow” on new indie developers as well.
Most of the new devs, like myself, start with wanting to make their dream game, which is most of the time a mmo or something ridiculous like that.
It’s not bad to do this if you have got the necessary skills but nearly every new dev is only good in one aspect of game making when he starts (i.e. programming or game design).
I, fortunately, noticed this early on in my “career” and I lowered my ambitions quite a bit since.
I know now where I’m good at and where I can get help from others and I don’t want to make my dream game anymore because it would be impossible or would take several years to make.
Your first game should always be something simple, imo.
I don’t mean offense, but to me this is a list of bullet points arguing that you aren’t serious about succeeding at an ambitious project.
If you really want to push yourself to the absolute limit of your productive potential, you need to drop all these pretenses. You need to figure out the most efficient way possible to reach your goals and be deeply (painfully?) honest with yourself about the limits of your strengths and the depth of your weaknesses.
There’s a place for learning and messing around and experimenting. That stuff is super important. But when it comes down to really achieving something, actually producing that game in some finite amount of time - that’s another story entirely.
It sounds to me like you’re self handicapping. This kind of thing can be great when you’re learning or experimenting. But when the chips are down, you can’t self handicap. You need to play to win.
Unless you’re making another 2D top down space shooter, get ready to cut some corners. If you’re happy with the way your game looks and plays, it doesn’t matter where stuff came from.
I’m pretty much happy with the way my game looks and sounds, coming from blender cycles I pretty much mastered the lighting setup process, what I’m not so happy with is my gameplay skills.
Actually, I go straight into the look, as this is where I tend to get drawn to, I think everyone must have this problem, some may get drawn straight to gameplay, I’m now starting to realise this is a big disadvantage. I know if I work on something generally it comes good in the end. But there is a lot of disciplines to get right, maybe I should have started off with a 2D platformer like most other people do. I guess I like diving into the deep end.
All depends on who you are and what you are trying to do. I don’t think anyone can really apply such an all encompassing statement to Indies in general.
Certainly, I don’t think these folks were trying to do too much. They just tried to make great games:
I think it really all comes down to what you are looking at exactly. Some games are bigger, some have better graphics, some may have great cinemas and voice acting. Are you comparing yourself as a solo dev to teams consisting of multiple people? Sure, there are some very nice looking games and some big games made by a solo dev but I see those as the exception not the rule. And likely they were labors of love created over many years. And quite likely by extremely talented people.
In the meantime there are solo devs out there making actual games that are reasonable for more of the “normal” kind of single developer to make and they are selling those games.
Yeah - perfection is bad for development. I’ve learned this working on solo projects as well as within small teams of professional specialists.
Using assets from the asset store is not a negative, it’s just pointing out you’d prefer to do things on your own, hopefully for learning and gaining experience. It’s great for learning.
However if there is a simple system or character setup on the asset store that is good enough for you to begin developing mechanics, eventually you will decide - I can either create this part from scratch which may take a day or two, or I can use that part that’s already created from the asset store and move on to the next part.
“without any assets from the store either” Curious - I really don’t get this statement when the character in your game was ripped form The Last of Us. Why point out your not using assets when your ripping an asset from another game?
About perfectionism - It really is a curse - and one I’ve had to exercise regularly out of my own creations. I’m also drawn to how the game looks first - most are - You can’t visually show how great a game mechanic (gameplay) is without visually having something to look at. First impressions, end cap compulsive buy, marketing, and game play are all supported by the visuals. So it makes sense to have beautiful art to show the game. But this can be an iterative process just like anything else.
In development I think it’s great practice to work in a iterative manner. Get this asset created at mvp level just to support the mechanic it’s going to used for. And using working assets from the store are great for initial gameplay development.
Work iteratively - simple assets to get gameplay worked out, once mechanics are working, iterate on the art.
Maybe get the cloth working, or some facial morphs, or swappable clothing. All these are great to have for players, and increase the visual quality (sometimes) but aren’t necessary to get the gameplay working.
Beautiful art assets can always be added to the game, this is called the 3rd,4th, 5th iteration, and polish, polish polish at the end stages. Every art asset can be iterated, use only what is needed to make the game entertaining - then revisit how pretty you want to make it.
Though - the other side of the coin is - to promote/market you really need pretty visuals to get attention, and the sooner you start marketing the more likely, when you finish the larger the audience will be. So without pretty art to begin with its more difficult to show off what you are creating to the public.
Reading the OP I would say it does not make me want to be perfect at everything, but what it does is make me learn general knowledge about all of the different parts.
I think it is important to know enough to realize what makes each piece hard and when you need to contract outside help. I’ll often sit down and prototype out a concept until I get stuck, do some reading, and then decide if this is something I can realistically do or I should either look for something premade or hire someone.
I agree, I was set on getting UFPS at some point but since developing my own shooter, while not perfect it was a good learning experience at least.
See WIP I’ve removed all copyrighted content now, after discussion with other members. Working on another character, but I guess everything is copied to some extent, be it different body proportions, hair colours, clothing variations.
Yeah there definitely is a flip side, I find myself forever in the polishing phase. I’m readdressing, my workflow, going back to basics, no textures just gameplay, which is part of the iterative process.
Exactly.
At the end of the day it what sells the game, although there are a few gems on steam indie, that are just blocks or square.
This is an interesting problem. With more tools and solutions coming out frequently that help game developers work faster and easier, it makes us all feel like we can accomplish everything. However, as stated by multiple other people here, accomplishing everything (especially to a state of perfection) is really not optimal.
From my experience I have learned that there are many people who want to make games. Many of them are people just like yourself - they do not have a lot of money to spend on development but are doing it because they love it. I think the best policy is to hunt for these types of people and make a team. Make the focus of the team to learn and grow as a group and as a result you will likely produce a game. It may not be a perfect game, but it will teach you valuable lessons on teamwork, group dynamics and business that are difficult to learn unless you are working for another studio.
I just chose the games randomly as representing what solo game devs are creating that have been well received on Steam. Well received in that they each have at least 1,000 reviews and the average of those reviews is very positive.
I do think individuals often focus on games “out of their league” and they end up giving up long before completion. Yet there are also many solo devs proving you can choose a more modest target, actually complete it and release it to favorable reception on Steam (as well as other places I am sure).
And that provides a starting point for them. They can always ramp up from here or continue to make games at this kind of scope (and finish them faster).
Definitely agree, I’ve just finished playing Limbo and what looks like an unassuming 2D platformer was ridiculously entertaining and when you think about the amount of thought that must have gone into the puzzle design, you start to appreciate the work involved.
I’m probably going to go ahead and purchase another, not so visually stunning game but looks ridiculously entertaining.
Mike Bithell has said a few times that the reason he did the whole blocks thing was because he didn’t have the ability to create something more complex. He worked with his limitations to create something that looks really nice!
It’s my biggest fear that I’m mega incompetent but I just don’t see it, I get this fear from the thousands of incompetent developers I’ve met/seen work from.
The very worst is when you see someone who is great at one aspect but horrible at another. A few times I’ve seen really nice looking games and ran over to have a go and it’s played horrible or was technically broken. Do you tell them?
I was just thinking… ya know… sometimes I do wonder what solo Indie devs are really after. Especially when they come to the forums posting about making epic RPGs, COD clones and so forth.
Just doesn’t make sense to me why an individual would target things like that. Especially when you don’t need to make a game anywhere near that scope to make a good amount of money.
The Robot Roller Disco Derby Dodgeball I posted above is a fine example of the kind of game a solo Indie can target as their “big” game. In my mind, that is an epic game for any Indie dev to make. As of right now it has 1,842 reviews on Steam with a Very Positive rating for those reviews (despite Jim Sterling bashing it in his YT video). The game has sold 140,000 copies and brought in about $700,000.
I guess I just don’t really get what folks are expecting. Like are some people around here really focusing on making one game that will be like winning the lottery? Like they want a $50k per day game or something?
If so that just seems a bit… insane to me. If I ever make something for money I’d be very happy for it to bring in $100k over the course of a year. Heck for a first game as an individual I’d be content to see it actually bringing in $5k to $10k. At least that is some return on the time spent and gets your name out there and a small user base started that can be built on.
