Asset Store Issue : Tampering with reviews "Helpful" votes

Hello,

on last Friday, I wrote a slightly critical review for this asset on the store : Unity Asset Store - The Best Assets for Game Making .

Then 10 hours later, I checked and I was greatly surprised to see that my review got 5 negative votes, while all other reviews didn’t get any new vote. I already wrote reviews for other assets, and never got much votes, even for a daily sale review. As my review wasn’t in the Top 3 reviews at 1st (obviously, as it was new), it’d have meant some people would have expressly clicked “See all reviews” to read & rate only my review, and none of the others. Quite strange.
I then waited 48 hours more hours, and like I suspected, there was no additional votes on my review. Now it’s almost 1 week later, and still no new votes.
I think it’s pretty clear what it means : the author of the asset down-voted my review because it is slightly critical (it offers a technical analysis of what is lacking in the asset), either by having several accounts, or by asking some friends to come promptly to help him.
I also re-checked the other reviews that I didn’t find much useful at 1st, and was surprised they all got only positive votes, I then gave them a negative vote (a bit out of exasperation), except for one : like mine, it offers some technical analysis, noting the low quality of some of the textures, which I found out to be true once I bought the asset, but ignored at 1st because that review got a lot of negative votes, likely because the asset author also down-voted it in the 1st place.

I think this attitude is deplorable and greatly damaging to the asset store review value ; I wish Unity could prevent that, but unfortunately, I guess there’s no easy fix.
Personally, I’ve been often reading reviews, as they’re often helpful in the purchase decision process, but if there was a lot of reviews, I wouldn’t read the ones with negative votes. Now, I guess I’ll have to check these ones as well…

Note: I’m posting this in the Gossip forum, as the Asset Store forum seems to be dedicated to promoting & giving feedback to new assets.

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Actually, I suspect that there could be an easy fix - or at least an easy mitigation. Why are up/down votes on reviews being taken into account at such small numbers? I think that in statistics you ignore any pool of data until it’s got at lest 30 samples… why isn’t the same done here?

I realise that means that a lot of comments couldn’t get a rating because of too few votes, but I think that’s a better position than having it so easy to manipulate them. It’s super easy to manipulate these when the numbers are so low that two or three votes makes a night and day difference. It’s not so easy when even a dozen votes would only represent 30% of the field…

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It’s for issues with the asset store itself as well, hence the title “assets and asset store”. I would guess the asset store staff, when looking at the forum, probably only read that category.

Nearly 100% of them in fact. :wink:

–Eric

Everybody go upvote his review and make the the most useful review to teach the author a lesson.

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yeah, I had someone go and downvote several of my positive reviews once. Not sure why and probably someone that didn’t even buy my asset. :confused:

Has this thread been shadowbanned or something? It shows up as show in the attached image in the forum. Shows no replys, no nothing. I had a post show up like that earlier criticizing the asset store that got zero responses.

EDIT: I think this is a result of the thread being moved to another forum (in this case the Asset store forum).

For what it’s worth, I checked it out and the comment in question is actually the kind of comment I wish there was more of. People gushing about things don’t really help me make a purchase decision. Knowing what people least liked about an asset is useful, though, and not just in a negative sense - knowing that the worst thing about this is some “marginal” texture work actually tells me that it’s probably a good fit for my current project where I wouldn’t care about that. Ganking the comment in this manner, if that’s what happened, doesn’t look good…

Well then, to me that just says that this “most useful” thing is nonsense that’s actually degrading the experience, at least in its current format. To work properly it requires data that doesn’t exist. If it can’t properly rate comments then surely it would actually be more useful to show some randomly selected comments? That would at least normalise the impact each comment has.

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There’s no such thing as “shadowbanning”. :wink: Yes, it’s because I moved it; that’s what the arrow means. It will go away after a day, so it will only exist in the asset store category afterward. The “topic moved” link is there temporarily so people know the topic was moved and not deleted.

No replies to your topic typically means nobody has those issues so nobody can really say anything, except for “it’s fine here”, which isn’t really that helpful. I would guess the asset store delivery network was temporarily having an issue for your location. It’s very rare that the asset store has stopped working for me, and when it has it’s fixed soon enough, so I’d only be concerned if it went on for an extended period of time.

Yep, the more time passes the more convinced I am that it wasn’t a good decision. Maybe it could be an option, but you’d have to specifically select it, so showing all would be the default. (So the opposite of the way it works now.)

–Eric

Another thing I have noticed about this 3DForge publisher (I wasn’t going to say anything until I saw this because it could be nothing) - take a look at this user who has reviewed almost all of this publisher’s packs. And until recently, that user had only reviewed 3DForge’s packs, along with the Asset Store Tools (free). Now this user has rated one more pack (which just happens to put the pack up to the 3-rating minimum for showing the ratings.) But this new pack is by a publisher, “NeatWolf”, who has only that one pack. Neatwolf has reviewed 3DForge’s pack, and 3DForge has reviewed NeatWolf’s pack.

Every one of the reviews mentioned was totally positive, and they are all written in a very similar style. Now 3DForge seems to make good quality stuff, and I didn’t want to go out and say this publisher was creating new accounts just to review his own stuff, but tell me with a straight face that this doesn’t smell a little more than fishy.

This is not really a surprise, seeing as Unity were flat out deleting negatives reviews, not once but twice. Claims that one review doesn’t matter just to improve sales of top selling assets.

Then the whole scandal with DFGUI being removed from download of those who already purchased it. As a result I don’t use the UT Asset store any more. The review section has zero creditability and UT has demonstrated that they cannot be trusted to act professional.

(I thought that users can now download versions of assets they have bought which have since been removed from sale. That happened the day that DF disappeared.)

There are plenty of negative reviews on the asset store. If a review was deleted it was most likely because it didn’t add anything constructive which has been shown in many cases. In your case, maybe the reviews shouldn’t have been deleted. It’s subjective, but there is an entire thread dedicated to that.

Right now this is only for Daikon Forge… it was a one off fix to get it up and going again but from what I read they are working on implementing it for other assets as well.

I just realized a major problem here - you can sign up and vote on assets before clicking the link in the confirmation email.

This means you can easily write a bot to create 100 accounts and downvote all helpful reviews.

@Zeblote - Please report that issue to the asset store admins… might also be a good idea not to post it here as people might exploit it.

I have no idea where to report something to asset store admins, so I posted it in a related thread.

It’s not as easy to find I guess if you’re not a publisher. :wink: Send an email to: assetstore@unity3d.com

Help → Report a Bug
Like that, Unity won’t miss it. If you post it here in the forum, it may not be seen by anyone from Unity.

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Hi,

I came across this thread and would like to clarify any questions and misconceptions that there might be.

There is a large amount of of assumption and accusations here that is completely unfounded and they building on top each other each time basically excepting the previous then as fact and totally makes them invalid and untrue.

I am emailing the thread link to the head of the asset store as well so that the person can see the discussion and input if they think anything is still missing.

The initial review in question:
The reviewer complimented the assets on the points that were relevant,
Then he went further to criticize items such a normal mapping, spec mapping and such.
I never advertised that to be in and tried to create the impression that this was there.
The review criticized something that was not in the package, It is like buying a car after seeing all the features and then when you get the car you are unhappy that it does not have air-conditioning

Here follows the emails where you first asked about this and I offered to provide them to you in private via DropBox

Hello,

At 12:32 05/08/2014 +0200, you wrote:
I can make these for you specifically with a tool like Shader Map.
It is a pretty easy task and give them to you via Dropbox.
Really…? :-o

I’ll give you an example to be sure we’re on the same page : for the potions, the glass part should have a lot of specular, the cap & strings, just a little bit, and other parts some but not too much.
It could be done mostly automatically ?

For the normal map, I noticed an amulet that has shadow lines that should actually be done by pixel lighting so the shadow side would depend of the light direction. This one I guess you can’t change easily as it’d require to change the diffuse map (although I don’t mind too much to use it like that, as it won’t be seen from too close in my game world).

I will see about adding them to the actual project file on the store.
What they will do is give the perception that the project is resource heavy becasue of the perceived file size
and in my experience will frighten of prospective buyers.
Oh yup, I understand ; I guess most buyers use your kits for mobile games.!

Please do have a look at the Village Interiors Kit and its demos and see my texture quality with the diffuse only.
Exactly the same assets for TopDown and FPS
27 x 5* ratings and many shiny reviews
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/17033
Yes, I follow your work since a few months. What you do with only diffuse maps is pretty amazing and looks great on screenshots. Unfortunately, my game is for PC, and diffuse only looks terribly flat and lacks details once we’re walking around in the 3D world with dynamic lighting (especially in FPV, like my game is).

I have stated in the emails to you upfront that for me to provide them to you is not a problem, that the only problem is where your taste of how bumpy they need to be is quite likely different from mine, so I could give them and lets see.

I did so inside an hour or two.

You went then and gave it a bad review based on “a shopping list” perspective of what you thought was missing,
not what was there. That is not an accurate review in my opinion and I would guess many other peoples opinion as the down voting have come back to show.


Now concerning getting buddies to come over for a voting party.

I do not have the time or need to do that.

  1. I can confidently tell you that I have more that 200 users whom own all or most of my packages.
    Do you not think that many of them already have the asset ( I have sold more than 600 since it’s launch)
    and do not agree with your review maybe, but the fact that some people don’t agree with your point of view or
    analysts of the package you now make unfounded accusations that by reasoning of any of these points could be a
    very plausible reason for the way your review was seen.
  2. If my products were so bad, would they come back to buy more.
  3. Would I have problems to have web demos available for almost all my assets to you can go and through an
    eyeball on them and make a best possible choice of buying my assets.
    If I wanted to trick you into buying my stuff I would have maybe made videos where I can control the FPS and lighting
    and many more factors, no I give the the chance to go and run the same webdemo over and over and over so you
    can make absolute sure before you spend your money.
  4. I have been on the Asset Store for 14 months now , and have not had 1 request for a refund, just the odd
    charge backs deriving from fraudulent CC transactions.
  5. Google analytics showed me more than 15 000 visitors to my page for the Loot Kit during this last MADNESS SALE, do you not think that it is
    EXTREMELY possible that 5 people from that could not have agreed with you.
    I would say any reasonable person would say yes it is very possible.
  6. If you gave a positive review of a package and come back and see another person reviewing
    it and is talking nonsense in his review, what are you going to select, helpful or not helpful

I have seen many same reviewers:
I am greatful for the more than 200 regular customers that like my stuff and immediately buy them when they on the store next time.
I have in fact a list of users on email that receive early review viewing of the packages, give feedback and suggestion and help shape the products.
The Village Interiors Kit i itself was in fact a customer request that developed into a full product as you see it today


Deleting reviews:
Thee only time I have seen one review removed was when a matter that the review hammered on was either resolved or the users did not read/use the recommended method in the documentation for it to not be a problem

Can I ask you, would you want to miss the opportunity to get your hands on a good package, but because it is being miss-represented with a wrong review just because the reviewer did not bother to read or does not know how to use Unity. I would not want that.

To show you an example please look at this Unity Asset Store - The Best Assets for Game Making
Second last review by Stephan Tauguay, do you honestly want to tell me that the other 10 reviewers and the other 30* ratings are all wrong and he is right.

He has in one month not bothered to email me, come back and communicate on the review, which is not the platform for that in any case.
I would say that is a review that is mis-representing the product and clouding the judgment of prospective buy don’t you.

And the cool thing, his review is still there :slight_smile:


Any further questions please feel free to engage me via email

If anyone here want to be added to that list then please email me on info@3dforge.co.za and I would gladly add you, I will add you Emmanuel anyway so that you can see that I put my money where my mouth is.

I am a one man show that work 15 - 18 hours a day 7 days a week to build a reputable business.

I had users email and ask my PayPal details because of there happiness with the contents and quality of the Village Interiors Kit and the volume of the FREE updates that it has received (More than doubled in package size) wanting to donate and in that way say thanks.
I guess I must have really tricked them into buying my product?

Emmanuel it saddens me that you would just come out and make such accusations after I offered to help, kept to my promise (you asked for Normals and Spec, I provided AO and Displacement maps as well)

Emmanuel, if you want you money back, then please email me the proof of payment and I would gladly refund you for your product that you dissatisfied with. I want happy customers, if getting your money back will make you happy, well then I have another.

And this after you received extra personal interactions and bought the package at a 50% discount, shees, you know here is only so mush I can try to do to keep someone happy.

Cheers
Cobus

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So “many other peoples” came and voted right after the review was posted, but then there was no one for the next 48+ hours? You may not have thought the review was accurate, but if I was considering buying it, I would have considered it a very helpful review. It was mostly positive, but it pointed out that the pack was lacking specular and normal maps, which is very useful information to be aware of as a potential buyer.

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

Lacking, now I am sure one can make a whole page of what is lacking from any package on the AS.

What I offered and showed, and you can click on each of the tiny thumbnails before you buy something, is exactly what you got, to then criticize the package because of extras that you would have liked, and this case the users received for FREE on request, is an inaccurate review. Other just saw this inaccuracy in the opinion and down-voted saying that it was not help full concerning the contents of the package.

And sorry the review was not deleted now was it., HAHA to think that I have any say over it being removed, that is which-full thinking.

Please ready the Car & Air-conditioning explanation above.

With so many users viewing the page ? , some have given the opinion and after that not, if you see a review that you don’t agree with, some have already voted it down, then very likely not bother to also add your voice

I had many sales and one extra review and 5 extra * ratings added, it is less than 2% of the amount of buyers during the SALE.

So it very clearly is the behavior of the general shopper.
If I read reviews and I agree or not with it, if it already has many click that is in agreement to my opinion, I don’t go and also click it

Surely I can not be the only person thinking like that?

I have answered all the items thoroughly if anyone have more constructive input and anything with reasonable/provable grounds then please email me.

Adding normals and other data:
Look at the Cave Adventure Kit and the file size.
I provided normals for each and every file as well as 1024 & 512 maps for everything, It has hurt the package more than it helped, I had countless emails wanted to have explained why the package was so large and can it run on this and on that

Look at this web demohttp://www.3dforge.co.za/3DForge_DEMOS/FantasyInteriors_Village/TheCrypt_FPS.html it is 10mb only, nice light, runs super smooth and look pretty good.
That is what I opt to supply, good looking, lightweight art that can run on Unity FREE.
With the MANY regular users that but my stuff I would say that the general users are in agreement.

That is why the Loot kit does not come with these maps, but I was more than willing to supply them to keep a user happy.

Cheers
Cobus

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