Dogfight Elite: my first kickstarter

News & General Discussion
1

Hi there!

I’ve been planning this moment for months, and we officially launched our kickstarter campaign yesterday!
The project is Dogfight Elite. It is a multiplayer flight simulator done in Unity3d. The idea is that it won’t only be a flight sim, but also an educational and historical game. Meaning, we will show great stories of World War I and World War II.

The game will be released in iOS, Android, Windows Phone 8, PC/MAC, probably blackberry and also some consoles. It will also support Oculus Rift! (it should be pretty awesome with those glasses!) We are looking to raise $125k, so please check if you like it and pledge some :slight_smile: otherwise if you know people that would love this kind of game, shoot them a message because we would love to have everyone on board :slight_smile:

The link: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/echoboomapps/dogfight-elite

Let me know your thoughts :slight_smile:

Joaquin

update: we added some real time videos of the game, included Oculus Rift and also we’ve just got promoted as Staff Picked project by Kickstarter! Hurry up! Only 5 days left!

2

Looks good! I may pledge, but a question:

Say you get the money. What will you do with all of that?

3

Everything we promised. Right now we have only a prototype, but we need to create videos, voice over, historical missions, 3d models, soundtrack, get all licenses, etc… that’s why we need the funding :slight_smile:

4

The game will be released in iOS, Android, Windows Phone 8, PC/MAC, probably blackberry and also some consoles.
Console licenses aren’t cheap. (Except OUYA).

5

No need for $125k here. I mean good luck on your goal and everything.

6

That’s what I was asking. I know they don’t come cheap, but you’re looking at 20k MAX for all systems, and I just don’t see why you need so much. I’m pledging, though, because it looks nice.

7

Each console is around 60k each(could have changed over the years). But that still leaves them with the slim chance of getting approved by Sony/Microsoft and Nintendo. That then leaves you with the other consoles, and everything you’re trying to get.

8

@dtg108 as khelton said, it is way more than $20k for the licenses, and we hoping to be able to get a discount but still it is not cheap. On top of that, you have to calculate 4 to 6 months of work, designs, music, special effects, food, office space, servers and hosting and all that jazz needed for a team to work together and not having to take another job because they have their kids asking for food. I believe $125k is very low budget for what we are trying to achieve :slight_smile:

Aside from that, the game will be educational and historical based. Meaning we will need to get lot of documentation of also make videos, 3d animations and voice over (obviously it can’t be me talking with my thick accent :slight_smile:

In short… it’s a pretty big project, that’s why we hope that community can help us put the resources together :slight_smile:

9

It is not a big project.
C’mon, you know it. You can tell that to bidders. Not to developers.
Simulators are the cheapest games to make. Specially Flight ones.
No need to spend money on :
Characters and character’s animations, voiceovers, even music, detailed story line like in quest or RPG’s games, detailed levels like in FPS or RTS, again RPG. No high polly stuff.

All you need is mid poly airplanes with nice shiny shadders on them. Even those you can find for free and adjust to your needs, or buy for as less as 20$ -100$. And a flight sim. kit/framework.

All in all 125k is too much to ask. I can see this project won’t take off if you REALLY need that much money.

But good luck with all your ventures.

10

At least they arent underbidding like so many devs.

11

Very true.

But also, 125k isn’t that much and pretty reasonable if the game has the scope and content they are aiming for.

I backed it, and hope they succeed. I like the idea. (and just glad to see something that isn’t another fantasy rpg).

12

@zombiegorilla thank you! :slight_smile:

@magico i’m really trying to understand your point but I already did the first version of Dogfight and I personally spent just by myself about that amount of money, and with this kickstarter you have to also ship physical stuff, make t-shirts, make boxes, etc… it short, you may think we don’t need the money but your comment is completely out of place insinuating we are lieing. We do really need the money because we’ve trying to work on this project for over a year and went over it multiple times.

if you want to make a good historical flight sim, getting some planes and shinny shaders are not the way to go. In fact, 99% of shaders in Dogfight are unlit textures shaders (way to go!). What you mentioned it’s not even 1% of all costs and hours that go into making a multiplayer flight simulator… and specially if you are looking to make a quality one.

There are many problems that we already had to tackle, for instance for multiplayer to go “ok” while you have 2000 simultaneous players flying and shooting at 180 km/h. It’s not a simple drag and drop, and more when platforms like windows 8 or windows phone 8 does not support any of the existing network packages. You have to write your own (that’s a project in itself, the smartfox client for win8 you see now on their site i wrote it myself for instance), set up the server side, the cloud system which is not cheap, the databases, all the backend for scores, squadrons, private/public messages, having their private paintings for each airplane, sharing info among them and moderating so that you don’t have crazy adults trying to do crazy stuff and playing the system. Models are not only planes, you need quality planes, bombers, tankers and much much more. Also soldiers, animations for the soldier, tanks, animations for the tanks, the sounds for each, setting up the 3d world, programming events such that when someone destroys the zeppelin you have to give points to only certain people but not others, also finish up that game and send them to the next mission and keep some waiting so that they all continue as a team, add different paintings for each plane and ranking, a system to allow the player to paint their own and propagate this on multiplayer without requiring every single player to download the paintings of everybody. And I haven’t even gone through 10% of it yet. In short you may agree or disagree with the number but it is definitely a big big project.

You are also forgetting tons of things that go into a project to make it successful that are not related to programming or modeling per se. You have things like marketing, community management (hey, see these forums, real paid people need to watch these), keeping up with the media/pr releases, making sure your project gets out there and adjust quick and positively to all requests you see on the reviews. If you don’t do these kind of things, you may finish your project and then have it sitting duck on the app store with 2 downloads a day and the need to shutdown and fire your whole team in a couple of weeks.

We ran the numbers pretty well and adjusted it to the minimum the most we could. I don’t know if you are familiar but many kickstarter projects that got funded failed to be finished and delivered. Most of the time this is due to not having done the numbers correctly. They assummed they just needed the $ to make the product and done. There is so much more behind the scenes, and I had to learn it the hard way because I’m a dev myself. Learning accounting, cashflows, marketing and all that jazz was not on me before :slight_smile:

I hope that clarifies some.

$4k now, wow :slight_smile: thanks to all of you who are pledging!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/echoboomapps/dogfight-elite

Let’s make Dogfight Elite reality :slight_smile:

13

You wouldn’t need to ship stuff if you didn’t do a kickstarter…

14

Obviously you wouldn’t admit you are wrong.

As I said you can tell all that to the bidders.
I have been in game industry for 19 years. I know what I’m talking about.
I made 2 hidden object games, working on the 3d one.
Budget for the first one was 60k for the second 37k.(since it was part 2 of the first game)
For the 3rd I’m working on I have estimated 70k, it’s a new franchise.
Go google how much it costs to make a Hidden object game, along that check the art that is required. Each scene is gonna cost you 800$.
My experience is not limited to casual gaming.
I did MMORPG, FPS working for others before I started my own company.
No need to tell me the costs of making a single airplane model. It is low.

125K is way too much for a flight sim. you are making.

That rant about the cost to ship all those T-shirts and printing them is just hilarious. You are charging for them in the form of backing your game right? So what are you complaining about.

Those soldier animations, tanks et.c is all just in your head I hope for your sake.
Otherwise I don’t think you know what people like in flight simulators.
You might actually add them but the cost will be really low, why would some one make high poly characters with full set of animations, along that heavy armored vehicles to a flight sim? When you basically won’t interact with them or see them.
If you are going to go full high poly on them, then I don’t think you know what you are doing.
Hence you are asking for 125k$

15

@magico jezz, i give up. Just show us 16 online players flying airplanes without lag and each of the models with their proper physics, boats, a zeppelin and while on the terrain you have walking and shooting soldiers and tanks running all multiplayer online on an iphone 3gs… just by adding some 3d models and shiny shaders. All done by yourself with all licenses paid obviously. There is no point on me argueeing the costs, you don’t believe it, i’m ok with it. What I’m not ok is that you call people liers.

16

Why would I want to show you 16 online flying airplanes etc.? Perhaps people are not interested in all that, specially with some boats, soldiers and tanks, when people just want to fly and shoot each other. Or perhaps there is an alternative to that.

I’m going to have a very busy day on Monday so I need rest and enjoy the rest of the weekend.
This is my last post here, summarizing all what you typed here tells me your game won’t see the light, at least in the form of what you described.

Yeah, high poly stuff on iphones can’t wait to see that happening.

I didn’t call you liars.
I don’t believe it because my opinion is based on my experience. If I have estimated something and it doesn’t go along with your view then perhaps it just well be your poor estimation. So stop saying I call you liars. That is just rude due to lack of arguments.

17

@Magico

that sounds like calling someone a lier to me.

Well, please look up on my post to find when I said i’m doing high poly (i can’t, i never said i would).

Also one of the biggest points of Dogfight Elite (mentioned in the video and description) is to have massive online flying combats. So yes, I do want to show 16 online flying planes at once and tanks and soldiers… not because I feel preppy, but because players of the previous version asked for it. It’s not my choice: i was surprised people would even want that on a flight sim. But yes, they do want it and they love it.

In any case, I don’t understand your posts. A team of 5 comes here to show their dream project and I haven’t heard one positive note from you: you don’t need that money, you know it, the project won’t happen, and so on… way to go man.

now shaking off the negativeness… back to getting this project to take off!

18

It looks cool , but I’ve been burned with kickstarted before, only lost 13$ but still .

I don’t like the whole “we want to be on Xbox too” .
No , you don’t its high risk , low profit to publish on consoles . The 1st party fees alone would eat up 120k .

So we have an Android/IOS, PC , Mac , game flight . I like these games , but I don’t see anything really unique about this . It’s very hard to raise this much money without a big name . I might put 10$ in the pot , if my fiancees are right . Yet, your goal is way too high .If you get to 50k , thats still a very significant amount of backing .

19

@keithsoulasa thanks for that pledge! :slight_smile:
Yep, xbox is the toughest. We have some help from Microsoft since we are into the bizspark program but we don’t have official word about xbox yet. We are hoping we can get it there, but it depends on the support. Meaning, if Microsoft sees a huge support for the project, they may be able to help us out on that one :slight_smile:

Also, as you mentioned, many lost money to kickstarter because the projects didn’t do the numbers right. That’s why the number is high, we don’t want to get the funding and then not being able to actually get the project out. If we get those $125k, we will release 99% for sure (check the risks and challenges on the bottom of the project page :slight_smile: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/echoboomapps/dogfight-elite
The biggest “if” are the consoles. Licenses for those are hard.

20

I don’t mean to be rude…but.

So before( as above ) you say you made it the minimum you could. Then above you say you made it a high number “just in case” your budget isn’t enough for your advertising etc. That’s very contradicting.

So now you’re just naming random things in order to justify 125k? That’s fine, except you’re also using kickstarter funds to pay marketing etc?

I don’t often find people that use Kickstarter not only to make their game but also to have people pay for their marketing as well. So the budget is not only for the game but also for everything and then some extra just in case. But at the same time minimum cost…while wanting money for every single aspect that isn’t even necessary for the game and completely irrelevant to it being finished(You do NOT need marketing to make your game).

I understand your reasons though, just don’t try to pass it off as something it’s not.