If Unreal can offer Full Unreal Engine 4 Developer Kit $19/MO + 5% free to cancel anytime subscription with complete access to the source code… https://www.unrealengine.com/register
Why can’t Unity Offer the same?!
I’m not trying to sell, promote, advertise UDK at all. I use Unity and would not trade it for the world, but this I think would be a much better way to give more Unity developers access to Unity Pro than the current subscription deals that Unity offers.
Hopefully nobody will gets upset with this thread and members can have thoughtful discussion and perhaps even influence Unity to imagine beyond the current subscription offerings…
I mean it would be nice if in addition to what is presently being offered something like this would also be offered.
They have to offer the same, or something competitive to stay relevant.
UE4 has Android, IOS, Windows and Mac support, out of the box. No Pro add ons. It has the full C++ source, you can implement stuff like Lua if you want.
Even if we let the source code slide, just the pro offerings costs $225 a month. Unreal costs $19 for that (not 19.99, just 19). Unity is almost 12 times more expensive. That is more than a 1000% more expensive.
They have to get rid of the add ons, they just have to. They need to reduce the subscription, and remove the 1 year contract. I can live without source access, but these are the things that they definitely need to do imho.
Technically i’m not sure Unity need to do anything, from crunching the numbers on the UE4 thread here, if you upgrade Unity+Android+iOS every two years it works out you only need to be generating $27,000 p.a. for the 5% royalty to equal the amount you pay to Unity
There are of course various different aspects and trade offs to the costs, buying Pro first time is going to be twice as expensive, UE4 is definitely attractive for people who don’t have a regular income from development and even for small teams where the per seat of Unity vs flat 5% gross profits can work in Epic’s favour.
However overall financially for successful businesses or developers I don’t think its s clear cut in UE4 favour in terms of costs. Obviously other aspects of the deal can and should be more of a deciding factor, such as getting source code, specific engine features etc.
I think the big deal here though is the perception that UE3 is an amazing deal (if it might not be after you crunch the numbers for your specific situation) and that maybe the battle for hearts/minds and wallets will force Unity to make a counter-move. It might be as simple as an additional pre-order bonus, combining Android and iOS Pro licenses to the cost of just one, reducing the monthly renting cost etc, though I don’t see them trying to directly match Epic.
a lot of people who are indie would love to have a way to get access to pro and $19/m+5% for all pro with addons or $10/m+5% for just pro is far better than current subscription plans and inline with what unreal/crytek just started doing… its called competition!
If early UDK is any indication, most of that will be fixed by the time Unity 5 shows up. If by that time, Unity doesn’t do something, there won’t be a Unity 6.
i sort of agree its brutal competition in this world its either compete or die. its like a race and even if ur running u can be standing still or even falling back. u really have to run to get ahead. which is good for us
i think the biggest good could be for making it easy for people like myself to get access to pro. i dont make a penny right now, do nothing but spend on assets and may never even make a penny on sales so the cheaper it is the better. more money for assets more money to develop. and if i do ever may a sale i dont mind unity getting a reasonable cut
like unreal site says
$10 sale, $3 for store, 6.5% for developer, .5% for unity and that is for the works! full access to source code and full packages for all platforms and even free cancel anytime subscription.
that would be so sweet for me! and if i do make a game at some point and if it does have any sales and if it is a big success, lots of ifs, then why should unity not get a cut even greater than what they outright sell it for since they sort of helped me upfront keep my costs down and be able to put it to keep dev going and to put it into assets…
im more concerned about 30% someone steam will get over .5% like unreal or perhaps someday unity will get… since by the time you account for everything that went on to develop a game there is not much left for indie since the costs of all the assets and other stuff eat bigtime into the 7% or n unreal case 6.5% u end up making after someone like steam gets their 30% or yeah and the tax man… i think at this point its like %0 left
The way they present it is nice, but there’s a lot to be said for the UE4 engine announcement being chock full of perceived value compared to regular value.
There’s a lot to look at, including what your expected revenues will be, etc. 5% of gross is a pretty huge chunk for people who release games that would just break even, or barely float a profit, which is going to be a lot of them. Add onto that that $19/month per seat doesn’t have any console support (legally, they can’t), trying to actually deploy to those is going to bump the price significantly. For small teams on short cycles going just to mobile or PC, it may be advantageous, but those advantages go away pretty quickly if you want to target the consoles, or have a larger team or dev cycle.
There’s a lot to take into account here, and while the headline-grabbing snippet of the cost is nice, it is in no way the whole story.
Also, I’m curious how long this might last. With several sub-studios providing a lot of the underlying code for Unreal, I have to wonder how much of a bath Epic may be taking on this, just to try to secure some of the mobile business that Unity has managed to monopolize for so long.
Regardless, engine choice just got real interesting.
No one in their right mind will pay more than what UE4 is currently going for to get Unity 4 or Unity 5.
#1 Reason, you can get UE4 today, right now. Not 6 months from now, not 1 year from now, but right now. Unity 4 vs UE4 … unfortunately Unity 4 is blown out of the water.
#2 Reason, why spend big immediately on hopes of getting it back and more, vs spending little now and if by chance you hit it big, you’ll end up spending way more. To the LARGE majority, paying later for success is more worth it than paying now for possible success.
Another thing to consider, you can still use UE4 without paying the subscription. You can pay 1 $19 payment, download it, cancel your subscription, and keep developing for as long as you want. You only need to keep paying the subscription if you want all the updates (you still need to pay royalties no matter what though). At least that’s how it seems to work based on the FAQ…
Fans: “unity sux0rs, no gfx for my AAA game brah, what gives, moving to Cry to unleash the real me!”
UE: “huehuehuehuehue…”
Cry: “huehuehuehuehue…”
Unity: “Hey guys, we added all the stuff you wanted from the past 3 years.” Fans: "… Fans: " ermagherd!!! its like ue/cry!!!111``oneoneone "
UE: "huehu… ehr… "
Cry: "Erm… " Fans: “wtf no mono update kthxbye.”
UE: “Hey guys uhhhhhhhh we’re 20 bucks and 5% royalties now! Yay!” Fans: " ermagherd!!! kthxbye Unity!! changing my whole project as soon as it downloads! no brainer lulz! "
Cry: " Hey guys, we’re TEN bucks and NO royalities! Woohoo! " Fans: " … is this real life? "
Actually they don’t they could just ride it out, at least from a financial point of view many people are missing that UE4 is likely to cost just as much if not more in the long term. There are a few exceptions such as small teams 1-4 poeple who could save through the per seat cost of Unity compared to the 5% of gross earnings of UE4, but generally its no where near as clear cut as poeple are making out. Combine this with the strong belief I have that many of those wanting to jump ship are not using Pro, therefore not directly contributing to Unity anyway.
That line was more to show that they could ride it out and certainly they should not be forced into a snap repsonse as this is extremely serious business stuff here. A snap response could see Unity under-cut themselves so much that it threatens the company, that would be bad for all involved. Indeed the changes in licensing from Epic and Crytek could be seen as a serious attempt to price out Unity from the emerging markets, whilst at the same time for UE4 increase their market penetration. So Unity will obviously have to be very careful in their response.
However I then went on to describe why I feel Unity will have no option other than to respond in some way, because regardless of the technical aspects in terms of the companies finances, the perception of these amazing deals from UE4 and Crytek stands a very real chance of harming their bottom line, from losses of up-sells (converting free to pro users), falling asset store sales, smaller presence etc.
So I think we are in agreement generally, just I don’t think Unity need to go to anywhere like the level you are suggesting. It could be more damaging for them to do so.
When Unity 5 comes out, UE4 will be well over two years old. You’re essentially paying support on a two year old engine that has been retrofitted to work on mobile platforms. It’s certainly not perfect, and while it will be getting support, it’s not going to be getting the focus of new development, most likely.
Except if you don’t have success – and that’s going to be the case for a majority of developers, like it or not – you’re getting kicked while you’re down.
5% of gross may not sound huge, but if the platform holders are getting, say 30% of gross already, after you figure in taxes, you’re lucky if you get fifty cents for every dollar worth of product sold (or ad revenue, or whatever). You’re essentially going to have to sell almost twice as many copies to break even with this added hit on there, and if you don’t, well, too bad, you still have to pay them, before you ever get to pay yourself. That’s a REALLY hard metric to realistically plan for. Plus if your development goes longer than you expect it to (and it will, more often than not), you’re paying that sub fee, per month/per seat, until you finish it, which is even more sunk cost… and if you go over and you’re not prepared to, the chance is you’re not going to have planned ahead for that cost sink, and for larger teams/more complex projects it’s going to be significantly painful.
And if you fail to abide by their terms, you’re either not going to be able to release, or you’re going to get saddled with all sorts of penalties, at the very least
The Unity cost-up-front can at least be accurately budgeted for, and that alone makes a ton more sense, especially for a group bootstrapping themselves and likely to slip.
There’s a metric TON of stuff to take into account, and the initial cost is just a small part of the story. The value of each platform is likely to be on a case by case basis.
(Note that I’m talking about full-price upfront on Unity, not their subscription cost, which they WILL have to rethink, IMO)
(Not even figuring CryEngine into this, because it’s a bloated pig, and just trying to stay relevant at this point)
Well if you look at this way. You have three types of small studios/team indies.
a) Students who formed it with their friends
b) Studio pros who quit or got laid off and started a new one with fellow coworkers
c) Total novice group with no real experience.
Then you have the hobbyist group … and also the large team development studio group.
A) Students mostly are taught Unreal tech in school, some are taught Unity, and some both. I think there are more taught Unreal tech. That includes schools teaching game art, they make them very familiar with Unreal tech. They also dont have lots of money. So they will pick the cheapest and most familar … most likely Unreal tech.
B) They too are familiar with Unreal tech, and also dont have lots of money to spend. But they will use anything that works that wont cost too much from the start, so they’ll most likely pick UE4.
C) They just pick whatever they think is the ultrabest and cheapest for them. These will be mismatch group.
The large team studio group wont care what tool they use as long as it can deliver the best product possible, no matter what cost or condition. Most already use Unreal Engine, or have in the past, and arent adverse to paying royalties since they had to pay them with UE2 and UE3. So to them it makes no difference, and they’ll probably stick with what they know which is Unreal tech.
The hobbyist group goes wherever is cheapest and best bang for their buck is because they dont have much to spend, some do, but majority dont. Some care for certain things, while others dont. They generally will go with the best product with the cheapest starting price … aka which is UE4.
I agree with DMan… Unity might need to do something. $225/month + 0% royalties is going to be more expensive than $19/month + 5% royalties for a lot of teams.
I’m seriously hoping Unity does something to remain competitive. That price on an industry standard engine is too good to pass up, but I would be so friggin’ sad to know all I’ve spent on Unity so far is wasted if I switch.
If I were Unity, I would just ride it out. It’s pretty clear that a lot of people are going to jump on the UE4 deal, realize how difficult UE4 actually is (and subsequently how much time Unity actually saves them) and return back to Unity in just a couple months.
But if they are going to change anything, it’d be nice to remove the year contract on the subscription option.
