How long would it take you to make a level of your favourite retro game in Unity?

[Andy-Touch]

@Arowx

How long would it take you to make a level of your favourite retro game in Unity?

Unity and modern computers mean you have so much more power than any retro game developer could dream of and a system that makes it very easy to write games.

So the challenge is to post your favourite retro game and an estimate of the time it would take to develop a level of that game in Unity.

If you make a time estimate please break it down into elements (people make more realistic estimates when they think about the details):

Game Title (with screenshot or ideally video including first level)

• 10 2D Sprites [1 hr]
• 6 sfx [1 hr]
• 1 song [2 hr]
• Level layout [1 hr]
• Controller [1 hr]
• Player Character [1 hr]
• Enemy Characters [2 hr]
• Collectable elements [1 hr]
• UI [2 hr]
• Playtesting [1 hr]

Estimated to build time: 13 hrs.

Then if you can spare the time, and you attempt to make the game’s first level and see how long it takes and report back with an update.

If anyone has good tips or tricks they know or find along the way to speed up their game development, please share?

Also if you do make the level, what do you think Unity could improve to make the development process faster?

13 Hours to build a level of a retro game in Unity? I challenge you to actually attempt this and report back results in 13 hours time.

[Arowx]

@Andy-Touch

13 Hours to build a level of a retro game in Unity? I challenge you to actually attempt this and report back results in 13 hours time.

6 Hrs → https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/how-long-would-it-take-you-to-make-a-level-of-your-favourite-retro-game-in-unity.454165/#post-2943432

Feedback → https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/how-long-would-it-take-you-to-make-a-level-of-your-favourite-retro-game-in-unity.454165/#post-2943867

@neginfinity

Fun is important when you’re just learning to program, but having too much fun during development would mean you’ll never finish the project, because you’ll have endless distractions.

When you’re trying to finish a game you need a goal, focus and willpower instead.

I’m looking at a remake/demake (e.g. 8 bit/low poly version of modern classic game) as way to test your skills and because you have the original as a reference a good way to analyse your own weaknesses. Which is hard to do when you’re working on your own ‘dream’ project.

Or goal driven long term development is a totally separate skill set from using retro games to self test your skills.

[neginfinity]

@Arowx

I’m looking at a remake/demake (e.g. 8 bit/low poly version of modern classic game) as way to test your skills and because you have the original as a reference a good way to analyse your own weaknesses. Which is hard to do when you’re working on your own ‘dream’ project.

The problem here is that analyzing your own weaknesses while working on something else does not bring you any closer to completion of your “dream” or non-dream project, and may ultimately be just one more distraction. Which brings us back to the point of having too much fun. Getting something done usually requires completion of some unfun tasks as well.

[zombiegorilla]

@neginfinity

The problem here is that analyzing your own weaknesses while working on something else does not bring you any closer to completion of your “dream” or non-dream project, and may ultimately be just one more distraction.

More importantly, if your weaknesses are lack of creativity and/or problem solving. The whole exercise in just one of avoidance.

[frosted]

This is a great thread. I love seeing people’s work and hearing the challenges.

@ikazrima - prince of persia is an amazing game.

I would put money down that Prince of Persia was the core inspiration for Assassins Creed. The way Prince of Persia did animation was just sooo much better than anything else at the time. It was really years ahead of it’s time.

@Blacklight - I love that you took so much care in nailing the ‘feel’. It really gives you some respect for older games when you try to recreate something like that and see how hard it is to recreate on the same level.

I think the thing is - quality isn’t a linear cost. As you raise the quality bar - the cost in time goes up at an exponential rate. That’s why there’s a huge gap between gamejam or prototype games and complete, polished games.

That cost isn’t just art and it isn’t just code, the further you reach the better everything needs to be.

[Kiwasi]

@Arowx

*OOS - If it’s not in the game’s first level ( or the level I’ve made ) it’s out of scope.

I went and played ‘A Sensible Initiantion’ which is the first level of Cannon Fodder. It contained all of the things I had on the list.

So while you are free to make whatever you want, you have cut down the slope quite dramatically from the first level of Cannon Fodder. Be honest with yourself as to what you’ve made, and what you are trying to make.

[Arowx]

@Kiwasi

I went and played ‘A Sensible Initiantion’ which is the first level of Cannon Fodder. It contained all of the things I had on the list.

So while you are free to make whatever you want, you have cut down the slope quite dramatically from the first level of Cannon Fodder. Be honest with yourself as to what you’ve made, and what you are trying to make.

Well I based my remake off the youtube video I linked to in the post above.

• Enemy spawn points *OOS - There are only two enemies and no spawn buildings in level 1
• Buildings *OOS - See above.
• Character promotions *OOS - It’s an inter/post level feature.
• Inventory and item pickups *OOS - In crates which are do not appear in the reference video I used, please disprove.
• Cut scenes *OOS - It’s an inter/post level feature.

Or from a certain point of view (above linked video).

[GarBenjamin]

One important thing to keep in mind is @Arowx has used only about 1/4 of his estimated time. He still has about 15 hours remaining. He should be able to do a lot of the things mentioned in that amount of time. 15 hours is nearly 2 full workdays or about 3 weeks of game dev for me at current pace. Basically it’s a lot of time (if not focused on presentation concerns).

[Kiwasi]

@Arowx

Well I based my remake off the youtube video I linked to in the post above.

• Enemy spawn points *OOS - There are only two enemies and now spawn buildings in level 1
• Buildings *OOS - See above.
• Character promotions *OOS - It’s an inter/post level feature.
• Inventory and item pickups *OOS - In crates which are do not appear in the reference video I used, please disprove.
• Cut scenes *OOS - It’s an inter/post level feature.

Or from a certain point of view (above linked video).

Okay, just watched the video. Apparently there were multiple different versions of ‘A sensible initiation’. In my version it’s a ice level. There are a handful of buildings, cliffs, grenades and so on. Which comes in at level three in other versions.

That would explain the differences in our opinions, apparently we were both playing very different first levels. Your prototype is pretty close to the first level you were working from.

[Blacklight]

@Arowx

OK I think you’re making the same type of mistake I would make. Are your crosshairs in 3d world space?
I’m betting the originals were 2D sprites, positioned as needed.

Nope, they are 2D sprites on the canvas. I’m screencasting them to 2 points in front of the player (currently 30 and 15 units).

@Arowx

Try this:

• Make them 2D in screenspace.
• Raycast from front of the ships weapons to a Z plane set to the depth of the nearest enemy (in front of you)*
• Screencast this point and position the far rectacle there.
• Screencast the mid point between the ships weapons and this point and put the near rectacle there.

*This should avoid the problems with 3d pointing, you may need to have a minimal Z plane/distance and you might want a proximity lock, e.g. do a SphereOverlay test on the zplane point and if any ships are in that sphere auto lock onto them. Ensuring you get the weapon to lookAt that point before you fire it.

Good Luck and Have Fun.

I see two problems with your solution:

• The reticle is going to be jumping all over the place as enemies are killed or move to different positions, and if you try to smooth the transitions there’s going to be a lot of times where it’s not accurate at all.

• It’s only going to be accurate against one enemy (or small group) at a time.

I’ve actually sort of solved the issue with a different (and simpler method). I raycast from the camera to the reticle position and instead of just shooting the projectile forward, use the ray to aim. Instant accuracy at all ranges. There are some minor issues with this method but they aren’t really noticeable. Turns out I just needed to treat it like any other shooter game I’ve made.

Thanks for the suggestion, though!

[TurboNuke]

Interesting topic. I don’t think I could give a legitimate answer, as different retro games will take vastly different amounts of time to make.
I reckon i could fully make Scramble, for instance (if someone else did the art) in less than a day. Elite? er, a little more time.
Having made some games on old computers, we’d probably spend 90% or more of the development time actually getting things to work quickly enough, and in the memory space available.
These aren’t issues in Unity, so at the very least it should take ~10x less time. Then factor in having to work in asm vs c#, assembly times of 10 mins or more, sometimes even no Undo functionality in your editor… it should take 100x less time to make something in Unity!

[Arowx]

@TurboNuke

Interesting topic. I don’t think I could give a legitimate answer, as different retro games will take vastly different amounts of time to make.
I reckon i could fully make Scramble, for instance (if someone else did the art) in less than a day. Elite? er, a little more time.
Having made some games on old computers, we’d probably spend 90% or more of the development time actually getting things to work quickly enough, and in the memory space available.
These aren’t issues in Unity, so at the very least it should take ~10x less time. Then factor in having to work in asm vs c#, assembly times of 10 mins or more, sometimes even no Undo functionality in your editor… it should take 100x less time to make something in Unity!

Your right and a lot of retro games were made by single developers or very small teams and made in relatively short periods (weeks-months). If you check out some of the old timer interviews, they were often able to port a game in a matter of months to new hardware with only a few team members.

Note on Art: Check out 8 bit (ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64) games they have very simple art, and sometimes an entire ‘level’ was just one screen.

Manic Miner (a retro classic and programme art).

Elite would be trickier to do a level of, as it was one of the earliest open world/universe games. What would you class as an Elite level a flight from Lave to Finji?

So you would include Launch / Flying Out / Fighting Pirates / Jumping / Fighting Thargoids (50%) / Jumping / Fighting Pirates / Flying In / Docking.

I’ve written a Elite Dangerous Ship Database (with flying), so it’s doable.

The radar/UI and feel might be tricky to get right.

[TurboNuke]

Talking of ports… I did quite a few ports, Amiga → ST → PC / Genesis, etc. Line by line code conversion stuff. I could get a conversion done in a week or two using that technique.

[GarBenjamin]

@TurboNuke

Interesting topic. I don’t think I could give a legitimate answer, as different retro games will take vastly different amounts of time to make.
I reckon i could fully make Scramble, for instance (if someone else did the art) in less than a day. Elite? er, a little more time.
Having made some games on old computers, we’d probably spend 90% or more of the development time actually getting things to work quickly enough, and in the memory space available.
These aren’t issues in Unity, so at the very least it should take ~10x less time. Then factor in having to work in asm vs c#, assembly times of 10 mins or more, sometimes even no Undo functionality in your editor… it should take 100x less time to make something in Unity!

You’d think so and that was my expectation as well but in my experience at least it doesn’t work that way. Some of those old games were made literally by one person in 3 to 4 weeks. Assuming they worked 5 days per week for a month averaging 10 hour days that’s about 220 hours. 1/100th of that time would be 2.2 hours.

Realistic I think is reducing the time down to about 1/5 to 1/4 so what took 1 month back then may be completed in 1 week now. IF the person knows what they are doing. A lot of the older games look the way they do simply because these people were primarily code warriors not artists. Superb programmers and that is why they were able to produce the games so quickly. Certainly just anybody couldn’t have done it then or now.

This is why I firmly believe the major bottleneck is in the presentation layer. The creation of the graphics, music and sound fx. Especially today.

It’s basically like your ports. How fast would it be to port only the codebase compared to having to also create the graphics, music and sounds from scratch even using the original work as references? I bet it would add a significant amount of time.

The same is true now. If you had a huge library of assets (say the Asset store actually had everything you need to complete your game except for all of the programming) making a game would be incredibly easy and fast at least compared to having to create all of the content as well which will almost certainly take far more time than any other aspect… particularly if you get caught up in the continual iteration, tweaking of the graphics as so many do.

There are other bottlenecks such as the greater complexity of the tools used. If you are using something like Unity Animator defining state machines that is way more time consuming than simply defining an animation in code even for the more complex cases where you define an animation table. In code that is dead easy and fast to do. Visually in a tool with state machine it is cumbersome and time consuming in comparison.

EDIT: That’s an awesome background you have. Can you share the names of some of the games you ported?

[TurboNuke]

Oh I agree, the presentation is the slow part - unless you are someone who can do it really quickly of course - there are those people around too

Edit:
McDonald Land PC
That’s one of mine… 68k to 086 conversion. That didnt take long, primarily because my mate Derrick;'s original 68k code was so damn good. Art was just passed through a converter to my format, so that took no time. I already had my library of sprite / scroll / audio routines.

[GarBenjamin]

@TurboNuke

Oh I agree, the presentation is the slow part - unless you are someone who can do it really quickly of course - there are those people around too

Definitely. I have worked with many pixel artists and one guy in particular can knock out very high quality pixel art animations (for the size and color limitations given) incredibly fast. Literally like a set of 6 images for a character animation in about 20 minutes or so.

There is a lady I hire out work to as well who does excellent work and again is very fast. Now the crazy thing is neither of these people do this professionally. They do it simply because it is their passion. They make graphics constantly in their free time just for fun. So that is the kind of people I always look for to hire. Such people are usually highly experienced and very fast.

[GarBenjamin]

@TurboNuke

McDonald Land PC
That’s one of mine… 68k to 086 conversion. That didnt take long, primarily because my mate Derrick;'s original 68k code was so damn good. Art was just passed through a converter to my format, so that took no time. I already had my library of sprite / scroll / audio routines.

Awesome! How long do you think it would take to recreate in Unity assuming you could simply do the same kind of conversion process for the graphics, sounds and music? Less time, more time or about the same?

[TurboNuke]

Well to make it identical would be very hard indeed! As the original was just code conversion. Translating asm to c# would be trickier, i would assume. So in this case it’d take longer.
However to get something complete which looked and played similarly would take a week perhaps? (for the full game).

It’s not something I’d like to attempt!

[Arowx]

@neginfinity

Doom I:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjCPUn6Wn_g

I think a reasonable estimate would be around one month minimum due to textures/artwork, but it can easily take more time than that.

I most likely would be able to make a prototype much faster using “untexture low-poly style”, but it wouldn’t have any music or sounds in it.

^^^People do not work at this kind of speed. Multiply sample time by factor of 10 or twenty.

Working 15 hours per day reduces number of days worked.

Editor needs better navigation (something similar to blender’s hotkeys), but this is pretty much it

OK Doom Level 1: Low Poly 3D + Low Rez Textures

Time Estimate

3h 3D Map Model
4h Map Textures
6h 2h Monsters x 3 ? I think
2h UI Bottom Bar
1h Gun
1h Shotgun
1h Armour / Health pickups
1h Doors
1h Door Buttons
2h Basic SFX
2h Basic FX e.g. Gore
3h Very Basic Music Track
5h Putting it together and Playtesting (Should be FUN)
32 hrs Total Time

Actual Time Taken About 40 hrs over 5 days

Finished Result [spoiler] Try it here → https://arowx.itch.io/doom-retro-remake-level-1[/spoiler]

Start Time Now - Wish Me Luck!

[neginfinity]

@Arowx

OK Doom Level 1: Low Poly 3D + Low Rez Textures

Doom 1 is one of my favorite games. Be ready for your example to be torn apart and criticized into oblivion.