One Year Later

[macdude2_1]

A bit more than a year ago I posted this thread, If you were on the forums then, you might remember it :).

Release incomplete now or wait a year?

The general consensus was that is was silly for me to continue working on my project, Metamorphic; because the scope was so large and I had such limited ability, there was no way I was ever going to finish it. I should simply stop it, learn from it, and move onto something else.

But the thing was, I was convinced that I was onto something really cool. Although my screenshots couldn’t show it then, I was convinced that I was going in the right direction. So although when I asked the question I was never going to take the above response. Gigiwoo realized this.

Over the course of the semester, I persevered, below is the thread I posted about six months later after I had worked on it for a bit during winter break and then again in school.

1134x750 sufficient trailer resolution?

By then it was coming time for me to apply to internships. I thought that having a cool trailer showing what I’d made would be enough to get me into the places I applied. While this may have been true for some computer science or game dev companies, it was certainly not true for the ones I applied to, aerospace/mechanical engineering ones at upper tier companies (as I was an ME major).

As the semester continued it became apparent I was not going to get an internship from the few application I had sent out. While I could have applied for an internship at lower tier companies doing tangentially engineering related work, I decided I would rather develop Metamorphic than do menial work. And so it was decided, this summer I would give myself one more shot.

Coming from the Spring semester, I was so mentally and emotionally exhausted that there was no way I could jump straight into Metamorphic. From the immense amount of snow (Boston) and engineering work I had felt caged in and held against my will. I needed to be outdoors, so I went on a 400 mile backpacking trip through the sierras. And while this month long trip brought me back up from the near depressed state I was in, it left me with only about a month and a half to develop and the question soon became: what should I spend my time on?

I honestly did consider abandoning Metamorphic and starting something completely new. The mechanics I realized really weren’t fun and the game was not all that cohesive. But fortunately or unfortunately, just before going on my backpacking trip, I stumbled into some buoyancy simulation code that lead to a series of ideas that finally got at the root of the fun that I wanted in metamorphic. So throughout my trip, when I had a second, I couldn’t help but think about the mechanics. It seemed the more I thought about them, the more I realized I had finally come up with some really fun gameplay.

Part of me knew that I wouldn’t be able to finish Metamorphic in 50 days, especially if I decided to implement the new mechanics, but I finally had an idea, and I’ll let you all be the judge of this, but I think a really good idea. So I suppose I could have made a different game, smaller in scope “just to prove I could finish something,” but then that is all it would have been, nothing more. And that just wasn’t an idea I could get passionate about – plus I had already finished a game, what use would there have been in proving the same point twice? So for the next 49 days, I plunged headlong into Metamorphic.

Now, finally I have something that I’m really proud of, something that I think really demonstrates my ability as a game developer/coder/artist. I have a game that is as far as I know bug-free and highly polished. I have a game that I think looks genuinely good and if finished I believe could do well on Steam and/or the App Store. The issue is, of course, that its not finished. While 99% of the code base is complete, I’ve only managed to make 7 levels showcasing only one and a half of the four core mechanics I’ve developed.

So my question is now, what should I do? I’m frustrated because I feel that with another couple of weeks I could at least make levels to showcase all four of the mechanics as well as a trailer video. Then I could at least post something solid on Greenlight. Maybe I could release an alpha or the game for free and start to gain some reputation. Or I could shoddily put a video and screenshots together tonight with what I do have (with the few drops of motivation I have left) and release it on GreenLight tomorrow. Or I could promise myself that I’ll finish it during winter break. Or I could finally take Gigiwoo’s advice and move onto something new and smaller in scope. What should I do?

Sorry for writing a short story, it probably wasn’t entirely needed, but I felt it explained my motivation and I wanted to put it out there. Thanks for any advise though, I’d really appreciate hearing what you have to say!

PS: My goal from all this is to get a job at Valve.

A few more screenshots of the seven levels: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

[angrypenguin]

@macdude2_1

I feel that with another couple of weeks I could at least make levels to showcase all four of the mechanics as well as a trailer video.

You’ve spent a year so far. If 2 weeks is genuinely going to make a huge difference then you shouldn’t need someone else to tell you it’s probably a good idea.

Having said that… don’t fall for confirmation bias or the sunk cost fallacy. How many gamers know about your game? Start getting feedback. It’d suck if your game ends up being held back by things that early feedback could have addressed or, worse, if you end up putting lots of time into things that don’t make the experience better for your players.

If your aim is to get a job at Valve, how realistic is that and do you know specifically what they look for in applicants? How much experience do you have vs. how much does a typical new hire at Valve have? (Don’t look at the special cases we hear of in the media. Look at their job listings.)

[macdude2_1]

@angrypenguin

You’ve spent a year so far. If 2 weeks is genuinely going to make a huge difference then you shouldn’t need someone else to tell you it’s probably a good idea.

Having said that… don’t fall for confirmation bias or the sunk cost fallacy. How many gamers know about your game? Start getting feedback. It’d suck if your game ends up being held back by things that early feedback could have addressed or, worse, if you end up putting lots of time into things that don’t make the experience better for your players.

If your aim is to get a job at Valve, how realistic is that and do you know specifically what they look for in applicants? How much experience do you have vs. how much does a typical new hire at Valve have? (Don’t look at the special cases we hear of in the media. Look at their job listings.)

Thanks for input, not sure I understand the first part of your comment though, are you saying I ought to ignore the doubters and continue the game because I seem so certain of my idea?

As far as how many gamers know about my game, not very many. My plan of attack was to finish a convincing demo, send it out to reviewers and then launch social media pages, a website and a green light page simultaneously. I don’t feel like social media pages would be worth the time until I have a Greenlight submission. I’ve also considering trying putting a message on my college social media page to see if I could get students to beta test. What would you advise as far as getting feedback?

Requirements for working at Valve seem to be unspecific. It seems they generally want talented individuals who are well rounded, but with extreme expertise in a certain area and “4+ years of experience”. I do feel I have a decent grasp of what they look for in applicants. Not to take the special cases we hear in media, but they have taken a fair number of college graduates with debatable experience ie. the narbacular drop team, the paint team and a TA a while back.

[kanga]

I reckon valve wants people who love to make games, not work at valve. Yeah, get some feedback already as was suggested and then finish the sucker. The screenshots look nice but it gives no indication of how the game is really.

[angrypenguin]

@macdude2_1

Thanks for input, not sure I understand the first part of your comment though, are you saying I ought to ignore the doubters and continue the game because I seem so certain of my idea?

I’m saying that if you’re spent 52 weeks on something and it’s not “done”, and two more weeks will make it “done” at least enough to be a portfolio piece, then it’d be madness not to do those last two weeks.

But, more importantly, it sounds like you’ve been making a game for a year with mostly no input but your own, which screams danger to me. Honestly, how do you know other people will like it? On a similar note, smashing some first pass levels together over 2 weeks isn’t necessarily going to be as successful as you think, especially in the absence of 3rd party feedback. The person who makes a level sees it very differently to anyone else. I think it’s critical to get non-developer feedback on a game as early and as regularly as possible. Otherwise you’re blind to the experience you’re creating.

Also, you say you’ve got 4 mechanics but only levels for 1.5 of them… how did you implement and test those mechanics without making levels? They might be implemented, but how can you be sure they’re fun and work as a part of a level’s design if you haven’t done that with them? There’s no knowing either way until you try, but there’s a chance that they’re not as done as you think they are.

To be clear, I’m not knocking anything. I think it’s awesome that you’re making something, and it does look cool.

[Kiwasi]

I’m a firm believer in the scope small camp. That said I’m constantly chalk ageing the dream big guys to come back with a complete game.

My advice is go to greenlight and social media now. Give them a firm release date. Then work like crazy to hit that date. And release regardless.

Otherwise we’ll see this thread again next year.

[macdude2_1]

@angrypenguin

I’m saying that if you’re spent 52 weeks on something and it’s not “done”, and two more weeks will make it “done” at least enough to be a portfolio piece, then it’d be madness not to do those last two weeks.

But, more importantly, it sounds like you’ve been making a game for a year with mostly no input but your own, which screams danger to me. Honestly, how do you know other people will like it? On a similar note, smashing some first pass levels together over 2 weeks isn’t necessarily going to be as successful as you think, especially in the absence of 3rd party feedback. The person who makes a level sees it very differently to anyone else. I think it’s critical to get non-developer feedback on a game as early and as regularly as possible. Otherwise you’re blind to the experience you’re creating.

Also, you say you’ve got 4 mechanics but only levels for 1.5 of them… how did you implement and test those mechanics without making levels? They might be implemented, but how can you be sure they’re fun and work as a part of a level’s design if you haven’t done that with them? There’s no knowing either way until you try, but there’s a chance that they’re not as done as you think they are.

To be clear, I’m not knocking anything. I think it’s awesome that you’re making something, and it does look cool.

Not sure if you read the beginning of my post, but I am a student, so I haven’t been continually developing for a year, however, I’ve probably spent a good six months of eight hour days over the course of the last three years. I agree with you though, I do not plan on stopping development, I definitely want to put at least another couple of weeks into it.

I suppose the origin of my question was at what point do I begin sending word out and trying to get it Greenlit? Should I make a short gameplay video of the mechanics I have now, write a blurb and post the screenshots I’ve posted here on a Greenlight page now or do I wait until the game is more complete to do this? And as far as the mechanics go, you’re right, I cannot be sure I’m done until all the levels work as expected.

As far as developing in the dark and getting feedback, what would be the best way to do this? Would recruiting beta testers from the forums be my best bet or should I ask people at my school?

[macdude2_1]

@Kiwasi

I’m a firm believer in the scope small camp. That said I’m constantly chalk ageing the dream big guys to come back with a complete game.

My advice is go to greenlight and social media now. Give them a firm release date. Then work like crazy to hit that date. And release regardless.

Otherwise we’ll see this thread again next year.

Alright, so I should spend my time tomorrow compiling the best video I can make in a day and then throw all the screenshots I’ve got everywhere and see what happens?

[JohnnyA]

You need to think bigger. You might want to start with forums and school. But unless feedback is terrible get it in front of many people. Steam, gamer forums, IndieDB, whatever it takes.

[macdude2_1]

@JohnnyA

You need to think bigger. You might want to start with forums and school. But unless feedback is terrible get it in front of many people. Steam, gamer forums, IndieDB, whatever it takes.

Ok, that makes sense. And you think just seven levels I have at the moment would be ok or should I should I make more before I send it out?

[JohnnyA]

Seven is fine. If people play all seven you are on to something

[macdude2_1]

@JohnnyA

Seven is fine. If people play all seven you are on to something

Haha, I like that logic. Well let me see what I can do!

[theANMATOR2b]

Hey macdude
ive followed your story from one thread to another on here - I even commented on your trailer thread.
I admit I didnt read the long post above TLDR.
But I completely agree with the knowledgeable vets posting above.

Get this play tested by as many people as you can. Valve wont hire someone who creates a game that isnt fun. And though fun is subjective - more consensus on fun is a better seller than less.

Suggest putting this up for free where ever you can. And get people playing it.
You really wont know if it is appealing until people you dont know can give you honest brutal feedback.

[superpig]

When Valve were developing Portal, they went through a period of having it playtested by people who had never played it before, every single week, to help the team see if they were on the right track. Erik Wolpaw said that hearing people laugh at the jokes every week was the one thing that reassured him that they were still funny and stopped him from rewriting them into the ground.

[runevision]

If you haven’t already, start doing play testing. Don’t try to get your game in front of as many people as possible before it’s solid. It’s better to do playtesting with just 3-5 people, then see the most critical issues more than one person have and address those in the game before you take on a new batch and repeat.

Why only few people at a time? Because play testing requires time and work, and if you give the same build to a lot of people, you will just have lots of people telling you mostly the same things. Also, finding new play testers can get difficult if you “use them up” very fast. As superpig allured to, you should not reuse play testers since you want to keep testing first time impressions over and over until they are great and you can’t get the same person’s first time impressions more than once.

Don’t send copies of the game to reviewers and social media until after many iterations of play testing and fixing issues. You don’t want to use those channels as guinea pigs. Only send to those channels once you have used play testing to make sure that what you have leaves a great impression.

[frosted]

@macdude2_1

Or I could finally take Gigiwoo’s advice and move onto something new and smaller in scope. What should I do?

Oh, come on. Gigi may have been a bit off base on this one, but you don’t need go and rub it in

The game looks great, definitely play test. You’ve apparently been working on this for about 3 years (you said 2 years in your post a year ago), and it seems like the blood, sweat and dedication has started to really pay off.

Also, in terms of portfolio piece - if you can get this on steam, sell it, and get half decent reviews your relative merit is on an entirely different scale than a trailer or demo or something.

Good luck man.

[macdude2_1]

@superpig @runevision – OK, this definitely makes sense. I’ll put a message out then and see if I can’t get a few people from my school to help out. And I think I will hold off on the social media until things are at least a bit more concrete.

@frosted – Thanks for the support, I really appreciate it!

And I’ll keep you guys updated on my progress, hope I can get a fair bit of further this semester!

[zenGarden]

@macdude2_1

PS: My goal from all this is to get a job at Valve.

What job ? coder ? What game ? because Valve don’t make lof of games.

[Azmar]

@macdude2_1

A bit more than a year ago I posted this thread, If you were on the forums then, you might remember it :).
http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/release-incomplete-now-or-wait-a-year.263909/

The general consensus was that is was silly for me to continue working on my project, Metamorphic; because the scope was so large and I had such limited ability, there was no way I was ever going to finish it. I should simply stop it, learn from it, and move onto something else.

But the thing was, I was convinced that I was onto something really cool. Although my screenshots couldn’t show it then, I was convinced that I was going in the right direction. So although when I asked the question I was never going to take the above response. Gigiwoo realized this.

Over the course of the semester, I persevered, below is the thread I posted about six months later after I had worked on it for a bit during winter break and then again in school.

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/1134x750-sufficient-trailer-resolution.299773/

By then it was coming time for me to apply to internships. I thought that having a cool trailer showing what I’d made would be enough to get me into the places I applied. While this may have been true for some computer science or game dev companies, it was certainly not true for the ones I applied to, aerospace/mechanical engineering ones at upper tier companies (as I was an ME major).

As the semester continued it became apparent I was not going to get an internship from the few application I had sent out. While I could have applied for an internship at lower tier companies doing tangentially engineering related work, I decided I would rather develop Metamorphic than do menial work. And so it was decided, this summer I would give myself one more shot.

Coming from the Spring semester, I was so mentally and emotionally exhausted that there was no way I could jump straight into Metamorphic. From the immense amount of snow (Boston) and engineering work I had felt caged in and held against my will. I needed to be outdoors, so I went on a 400 mile backpacking trip through the sierras. And while this month long trip brought me back up from the near depressed state I was in, it left me with only about a month and a half to develop and the question soon became: what should I spend my time on?

I honestly did consider abandoning Metamorphic and starting something completely new. The mechanics I realized really weren’t fun and the game was not all that cohesive. But fortunately or unfortunately, just before going on my backpacking trip, I stumbled into some buoyancy simulation code that lead to a series of ideas that finally got at the root of the fun that I wanted in metamorphic. So throughout my trip, when I had a second, I couldn’t help but think about the mechanics. It seemed the more I thought about them, the more I realized I had finally come up with some really fun gameplay.

Part of me knew that I wouldn’t be able to finish Metamorphic in 50 days, especially if I decided to implement the new mechanics, but I finally had an idea, and I’ll let you all be the judge of this, but I think a really good idea. So I suppose I could have made a different game, smaller in scope “just to prove I could finish something,” but then that is all it would have been, nothing more. And that just wasn’t an idea I could get passionate about – plus I had already finished a game, what use would there have been in proving the same point twice? So for the next 49 days, I plunged headlong into Metamorphic.

Now, finally I have something that I’m really proud of, something that I think really demonstrates my ability as a game developer/coder/artist. I have a game that is as far as I know bug-free and highly polished. I have a game that I think looks genuinely good and if finished I believe could do well on Steam and/or the App Store. The issue is, of course, that its not finished. While 99% of the code base is complete, I’ve only managed to make 7 levels showcasing only one and a half of the four core mechanics I’ve developed.

So my question is now, what should I do? I’m frustrated because I feel that with another couple of weeks I could at least make levels to showcase all four of the mechanics as well as a trailer video. Then I could at least post something solid on Greenlight. Maybe I could release an alpha or the game for free and start to gain some reputation. Or I could shoddily put a video and screenshots together tonight with what I do have (with the few drops of motivation I have left) and release it on GreenLight tomorrow. Or I could promise myself that I’ll finish it during winter break. Or I could finally take Gigiwoo’s advice and move onto something new and smaller in scope. What should I do?

Sorry for writing a short story, it probably wasn’t entirely needed, but I felt it explained my motivation and I wanted to put it out there. Thanks for any advise though, I’d really appreciate hearing what you have to say!

PS: My goal from all this is to get a job at Valve.

A few more screenshots of the seven levels: http://imgur.com/a/ORX1w

Your game looks really cool man, I was skeptical before looking at video and now I am impressed especially being a mobile game! I got a weird banjoo kazooie feeling when watching it lol, I don’t understand why you want to rush something good and you already spent so much time on it? I also don’t know why you are concerned about graduating as your final day of your game…? If anything you may not get an internship/job and have lots of spare time for many months, or if you do get a job, oh no you finish work at 3-5pm everyday and you now have dedicated 5+ hours everyday to work on your game. If anything you will now have more time compared to being in college!

If you are using this game as a way to get a really good job, well maybe you gotta bite the bullet and sleep less, finish coursework quicker in college so you have time to work on game while at college.

P.S. I am at the 5 month stage of you, I plan to do the exact same thing as you doing a 2-3 year project and I am also going in third year university, plus I have TA work for the university every semester as my part time job. I guess what I am saying is that there is no excuse on why you cannot work at it while at college…

[macdude2_1]

@zenGarden

What job ? coder ? What game ? because Valve don’t make lof of games.

Haha, I’m holding out that they’re going to get back into it once their VR headset comes out! Can’t imagine all the coders there have been twiddling their thumbs for the past five years.

@Azmar – this is certainly true, and I think it will be nice a break to do something productive and get away from classwork every once in a while.