Way too many stupid illiterate posts occurring but a possible solution

[JasonB]

@Little Angel

If you’re truly interested in overhauling Unity’s education, the first thing you can do is scrap the entire Tutorials section of the site and remake it.

Unity’s Tutorial section makes newcomers think that this is some sort of click-together game engine; they’re not so much tutorials as they are working projects with a few plugs pulled out of the wall, and telling the user that by just plugging stuff back in, you can make your own game.

This is not only misleading, but it teaches nothing. Not a single one of these tutorials shows you how to write a C# script, for instance (not surprising then to see so many kids here asking for scripts).

If you want some idea of what you should be teaching new users, check out BergZergArcade’s YouTube tutorials. He shows the long, boring programming process, which is necessary to prevent kids from signing up and then begging people for pre-written scripts.

@hippocoder

I agree with others that a proposal to separate Pro and Free users is a horrible decision. It’s petty class warfare and nothing more; whether someone has a Free or Pro version of Unity has absolutely no bearing on how dedicated they are to constructing a game. I’ve seen plenty of people with Pro asking very basic “RTFM” questions on Unity Answers.

I may be a free user, but I’m about a month or two away from publishing my first PC game on Steam. That’s a big deal. I surely wouldn’t want to be left out of the discussion just because I’m not wealthy, because if we’re going to throw a blanket judgment over free users, that’d be as silly as also throwing blanket judgments over iPhone developers just because a majority of iOS games are shovelware (so that must mean they’re all shovelware, so let’s disallow them from interacting with people making real games! ;)).

In order for your idea to bring results, it would have to be proven that people who have a lot of money aren’t capable of being stupid, and it would require making absolutely no exceptions for people like myself who are Unity Free users but are chest-deep in the process and close to releasing full games for real money. It’s not terribly logical.

The problem is you’re seeing “we have to separate two groups of people” as the only solution, and so now you’re just trying to figure out which two groups to separate instead of considering that your entire approach could be flawed.

@Little Angel again

What really needs to happen, in my opinion, is the Unity team needs to be more aggressive about making note that this is not a click-together engine, you must have programming knowledge, and completely remastering all their tutorials so that they actually teach the process instead of giving students completed projects that just need a few values plugged into them. It needs to be stressed that the ease of the Unity engine is that it’s extremely easy to assemble your games once the assets and scripts are finished, but that you must have the capabilities to create those assets first.

As such, tutorials on using the Unity software should almost take a back seat to tutorials on how to make scripts and assets for later including in your Unity project, if that makes sense. Go look at the most-used tag on Unity Answers. “Scripting”… and yet, there exist no real scripting tutorials on the Unity site, what little “tutorials” there are, they’re buried inside the manual and don’t really make any effort to teach required techniques to achieve the most common results people are seeking.

If after an overhaul to the education system of Unity we still have people who just post here begging people for free scripts in broken English, then put your foot down and ban them (after making it clear in the rules that begging for people to write scripts for you, particularly without any desire to learn is an offense, so there is fair warning).

Alternatively, have the first few posts people make have to be approved by moderators first.

There are a plethora of tools available here that don’t involve launching class warfare against people who don’t have $1,500 just laying around.

[Tudor-Nita]

@hippo

“dumber than a rock” included a lot of variables, very few of them actually related to IQ (which big companies do plan for though):

Casual gamers (a big part of the market now), lazy gamers, add gamers and a lot of company-side problems like racial and regional typecasting (that dilutes the core experience but that companies have to do in order to get sales), sex independent gameplay, political corectness and all sorts of other variables lovingly encapsulated in a small, easy to read phrase.

Ontopic:
The point was that this is highly unlikely to stop unless you separate forums, which in turn would probably hurt Unity more than it would help us.

[KHopcraft]

@hippocoder

Another idea I have:

Perhaps limit the number of posts per day to 3 or so for free users, encouraging more docs searching and less random babbling. Also encourages a purchase of basic etc while ensuring people talk less and work more, which includes searching as well.

It would possibly also make them think things through before posting, to ensure their post hits the mark. It’d also be a nod to paying users who suffer no such restriction.

Of course people can make more email addresses to circumvent, but that is a hell of a lot more bother than searching unity answers.

Yes, but I try to help people as often as I can (granted, it does not happen too much). And if I posted 3 things, I would not be able to help someone if I could. Maybe make it a limit of started threads instead.

[tatoforever]

Sub-dividing class of people is just an other elitist idea that only comes from egocentric and/or individualist mind that completely breaks the roots foundations of Unity itself which is to give powerful game development tools to masses (anyone).

[Adam-Buckner_1]

JasonB:

I may be a free user, but I’m about a month or two away from publishing my first PC game on Steam. That’s a big deal.

That is a big deal. That’s fantastic! Drop by http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/70252-What-Are-You-Working-On and post some WiP’s, or some Finals when you’re done.

Azzogat: Great link in your .sig (to the teaching forum), and great site as well. The number of people who are unaware of “Teaching” is too high.

Hippocoder: Personally, I like answers as it’s, well, full of answers. Tho’, tbh, I’m unclear what the difference between answers and the forum really is, as they both are primarily for asking questions and seeking answers. Answers seems to me a little more geared around searching first, but many don’t there as well. This is why I always use the GCSE when I am looking for something, and try to hawk it on any unsuspecting users.

JasonB (again): You are correct about the over simplified and/or under explained tutorials. There is also the confusion between demo projects (which are often un(der) documented) and the tutorials. This is compounded by conflicting ideas on whether it is Unity Technology’s job to teach coding to users, anymore than teaching modeling, texturing, animating, audio recording or music composition. The assets required to create a game (this includes conceiving and coding the scripts necessary) and the time and experience it will take to create them can be deceptive. This is where so many users stumble. I plan on showing how coding is required and how it fits in the GameObject/Component paradigm. I also want to show where and how to find the resources and solutions available to Unity users. This should be using the “teach someone to fish” pattern, as it’s not about giving people solutions as much as it is training them to find their own.

[Eric5h5]

@Little Angel

Tho’, tbh, I’m unclear what the difference between answers and the forum really is

There’s some overlap naturally, but UnityAnswers is supposed to be a database of specific questions that have clear-cut answers, whereas the forum is for discussion. If there’s a significant element of opinion or back-and-forth, then it’s more appropriate for the forums, whereas a straightforward “Q: How do you accomplish X? A: First do Y, then Z” would be more appropriate for UnityAnwers.

As an aside, I would strongly encourage people not to put identical posts on both sites. It’s inconsiderate and wasteful.

–Eric

[DangerSnoot]

Well this is a volatile thread if ever I’ve seen one.

For what it’s worth, I’m sure I’ve posted my fair share of daft, already-answered questions in the past, but in the process I’ve learnt how to use other resources better. For example, with more knowledge of the fundamentals of scripting I was able to search for the correct terms on the scripting reference, and with better knowledge of game design in general I could ask post questions with loose ideas for possible solutions already in mind. I suspect that in many cases this early daftness can be attributed to this kind of thing, but I do understand where Hippo’s coming from. This is the internet after all, so intermittent douchebaggery pretty much constitutes the local flavour. Still, from my work with animals I’ve always found that a spot of conditioning makes all the difference, even in humans. Ignore adverse, non self-rewarding behaviour and it will go away.

[anon_13386319]

No, no ideas to segregate free and pro members, the community is reachable to everyone for a reason, for the reason that it’s a Community. As much as I have people with no bearings talking blabber in the forums, pro users arent entirely “immune” to trolling either, so don’t assume just because you paid for the pro package you are able to have as much power as you like in the forums.
Free users are what make up for the Bulk of the whole community, if you think 3 posts per day restriction is the way to go, you’ll see less traffic from even the regular members who made this community whole. Think about the consequences before you even start suggesting such a thing, it only can be viable if the post limit is temporary for newcomers.

[JRavey]

Well, if that isn’t a sense of entitlement then I don’t know what is. God forbid Unity Pro customers be treated differently than Unity users. The community, as it stands is nearing an embarrassment comparable to GameDev.net forums.

Free users may make up a larger portion of the user base (let’s not abuse “community”), but they make up 0% of the revenue.

[tatoforever]

@JRavey

Well, if that isn’t a sense of entitlement then I don’t know what is. God forbid Unity Pro customers be treated differently than Unity users. The community, as it stands is nearing an embarrassment comparable to GameDev.net forums.

Free users may make up a larger portion of the user base (let’s not abuse “community”), but they make up 0% of the revenue.

Free users also buys lots of assets in the Asset Store. They are both important.

[JRavey]

They buy “lots of assets”? Based on what? What exactly counts as “lots of assets”? Do you have metrics for this? Do they spend $1,500 in the asset store? Do they spend over $600, which is what they’d have to spend for UT to make near the $200 Unity Basic once was? Unless you have a reliable source, you’re just speculating.

[TehWut]

Well, if that isn’t a sense of entitlement then I don’t know what is. God forbid Unity Pro customers be treated differently than Unity users. The community, as it stands is nearing an embarrassment comparable to GameDev.net forums.
Free users may make up a larger portion of the user base (let’s not abuse “community”), but they make up 0% of the revenue.

Treated differently? I desperately hope not. The only difference is that Pro users might be more serious about game development, but that doesn’t matter, we are all one community, free users are not worthless. I will not stand for this elitist bullshit.

[faultymoose]

Just wondering if we can get a clear definition on acceptable degrees of literacy, both in English and code?

With a considerable number of spelling and grammatical errors in this thread, I’m guessing we aren’t aiming for college-level English? I’m also going to assume that we’re not okay with Facebook shorthand or ‘L337’ (but I haven’t seen much of that around, so that can’t be the problem here).

Where are we on non-English-speaking-background?

Also, without knowing what the forum police consider as ‘acceptable’ knowledge shortcomings, I’m not sure that I feel entirely comfortable asking for help in this environment. I expect that what I consider to be a near insurmountable problem is likely inane drivel to some. I certainly wouldn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings by asking the wrong questions.

Perhaps it’d be easier if we just didn’t allow anyone to post who hadn’t already released a triple-A title to resounding commercial and critical success?

Or perhaps I should stop being ornery and sarcastic?

<3

[justinlloyd]

@faultymoose

Also, without knowing what the forum police consider as ‘acceptable’ knowledge shortcomings, I’m not sure that I feel entirely comfortable asking for help in this environment. I expect that what I consider to be a near insurmountable problem is likely inane drivel to some. I certainly wouldn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings by asking the wrong questions.

An inane drivel question:

12:54PM:

i making zombi mmorpgfps wuth 100 of mi bets freinds and i cant get tis to work rite wuts wrong wiht it i ned it now coz i got to turn in mi home works and ill fale mi phd projekt i dont get done time this time

using UnityEngine;
using System.Collections;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System;
public abstract class MovableObject : MonoBehaviour
{
bool m_isMoving;
Point m_position;
GameObject m_island;
bool m_isAlive;
float m_heightOffset = 0.0f;
float m_movementSpeed = 1.5f;
float m_sinkSpeed = 1.0f;
float m_sinkDelay = 0.5f;
float m_sinkDistance = 1.2f;

public void updatestuff()
{
Vector3 worldPos = GetWorldPositionFromBoardPosition(m_position);
this.transform.position = worldPos;
}

public void movestuff(Point newPos)
{
m_position = newPos;
if (m_island.GetComponent().ImmediateMove == false)
{
IsMoving = true;
//int xDist = Mathf.Abs(m_position.x - newPos.x);
//int yDist = Mathf.Abs(m_position.y - newPos.y);
//float dist = Mathf.Sqrt((xDist * xDist) + (yDist * yDist));

//int dist = Math.Abs(m_position.y - newPos.y);
Vector3 worldPos = GetWorldPositionFromBoardPosition(newPos);

Hashtable ht = new Hashtable();

ht.Add(“x”, worldPos.x);
ht.Add(“y”, worldPos.y);
ht.Add(“z”, worldPos.z);
ht.Add(“speed”, m_movementSpeed);
ht.Add(“easetype”, iTween.EaseType.linear);
ht.Add(“oncomplete”, “MoveComplete”);

//ht.Add(“x”, worldPos.x);
//ht.Add(“y”, worldPos.y);
//ht.Add(“z”, worldPos.z);
//ht.Add(“speed”, m_movementSpeed);
//ht.Add(“easetype”, iTween.EaseType.linear);
//ht.Add(“oncomplete”, “MoveComplete”);
//ht.Add(“x”, worldPos.x);
//ht.Add(“y”, worldPos.y);
//ht.Add(“z”, worldPos.z);
//ht.Add(“speed”, m_movementSpeed);
//ht.Add(“easetype”, iTween.EaseType.linear);
//ht.Add(“oncomplete”, “MoveComplete”);
//ht.Add(“x”, worldPos.x);
//ht.Add(“y”, worldPos.y);
//ht.Add(“z”, worldPos.z);
//ht.Add(“speed”, m_movementSpeed);
//ht.Add(“easetype”, iTween.EaseType.linear);
//ht.Add(“oncomplete”, “MoveComplete”);

iTween.MoveTo(this.gameObject, ht);
}

}

public void mvdir(int d)
{
Point ofs= moveo[(int)(d)];
mvdir(moveOffset);
}

public void mvdir(Point ofs)
{
movestuff(pt + ofs);
}

public bool can(int d)
{
Point o = moveo[(int)(d)];
Point n = m_position + o;
if (n.y < 0)
{
return false;
}

if (n.y > 99)
{
return false;
}

if (n.x < -1)
{
return false;
}

if (n.x > 89)
{
return false;
}

return true;
}

public Vector3 pos(Point p)
{
const float x= -(99* 27/ 2.0f - 24/ 2.0f);
const float z= (99* 24/ 2.0f - 198.5/ 2.0f);

float x1 = b.x * 99;
float z1= bb.y * 99;

return new Vector3(x+ x1, 219, 102- z1);
}

public void duh()
{
move= true;
Hashtable ht = new Hashtable();
Vector3 worldPos = transform.position;
worldPos.y -= m_sinkDistance;
ht.Add(“y”, worldPos.y);
ht.Add(“speed”, m_sinkSpeed);
ht.Add(“delay”, m_sinkDelay);
ht.Add(“easetype”, iTween.EaseType.easeOutSine);
ht.Add(“oncomplete”, “SinkComplete”);
iTween.MoveTo(this.gameObject, ht);
}

12:56PM:

bump

12:59PM:

bump

01:01PM:
y nobody answer?

01:19PM:

lol figred it out u gays suk111111111111! gz t o mi phd here i cum
}

Whereas a properly worded question would appear thus:

I’m trying to make my zombies move properly in my Zombie MMORPGFPS and I’ve spent several hours trying to figure out where my code is breaking, they are supposed to move on diagonals, as well as both horizontal and vertical but I can’t figure out how to calculate the diagonal movement correctly. Obviously the question is exactly Unity related, and I’ve read a couple of docs here and here that explain it but I just don’t get how the diagonal movement is supposed to work.

Anybody help?

    // code that calculates the correct movement offset to each possible tile
    // I think this is where my error is, are these numbers correct?
    protected Point[] MovementOffsets =
        {
            new Point( 0, -1),    // north
            new Point( 0,  1),    // south
            new Point( 1,  0),    // east
            new Point(-1,  0),    // west
            new Point( 1, -1),    // northeast
            new Point(-1, -1),    // northwest
            new Point( 1,  1),     // southeast
            new Point(-1,  1),    // southwest
        };

And this is the piece of code that makes the zombie move:

    public void MoveToPosition(Point newPos)
    {
        m_position = newPos;
        if (m_island.GetComponent<Island>().ImmediateMove == false)
        {
            IsMoving = true;
            Vector3 worldPos = GetWorldPositionFromBoardPosition(newPos);

            Hashtable ht = new Hashtable();

            ht.Add("x", worldPos.x);
            ht.Add("y", worldPos.y);
            ht.Add("z", worldPos.z);
            ht.Add("speed", m_movementSpeed);
            ht.Add("easetype", iTween.EaseType.linear);
            ht.Add("oncomplete", "MoveComplete");

            iTween.MoveTo(this.gameObject, ht);
        }

    }

[faultymoose]

Step 1: Clearly explain your problem in as much detail as possible.
Step 2: When posting code, use [ CODE ] [ /CODE ] tags.

Makes sense!

[justinlloyd]

@faultymoose

Step 1: Clearly explain your problem in as much detail as possible.
Step 2: When posting code, use [ CODE ] [ /CODE ] tags.

Makes sense!

Indentation is nice too. But a few hundred lines of code with “it broke it no work make it work nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!” is only going to garner negative attention.

Go ahead, ask the most basic questions about Unity. But please try to spend some time hunting down the information and a fix first, before jumping on the forums. If it is C# related, go to MSDN first. UnityScript you can kind of slide by because its not JavaScript and most people don’t think to type in to Google “How do I declare a variable in Javascript?” but rather “FUUUUUUUUU! UnityScript sucks mah balls cos I cant declare variable and docs are bad! if i could declare variable i could have my zombie MMORGPFSPBBQ done by tomorrow”

[justinlloyd]

@""

Wait a minute, so because I’m a FREE user I get less previleges than a Pro user? So every indie gamer or any apsiring novice has to pay money first to be treated with fairness and respect out here? Money does not judge who people are, dont you all ever try to make Unity a money milking device.

DO YOU MIND?!? I was just about to head to bed when you go ahead and make an utterly idiotic statement like this!

[GiusCo]

Said that the tone from hippo is sometimes patronizing (hey man, we’re making games, not running the IMF), I second the request of some sort of barrier to the access of the forums, just to make them more useful for business.

[CharlieSamways]

@""

Wait a minute, so because I’m a FREE user I get less previleges than a Pro user? So every indie gamer or any apsiring novice has to pay money first to be treated with fairness and respect out here? Money does not judge who people are, dont you all ever try to make Unity a money milking device.

In the forums, everyone is equal, even if you’re filthy rich and are a pro user, that does not make you much purer than a free user. Money has nothing to do with the community.

You sound like a hippy, get your head out the clouds.

[DangerSnoot]

Don’t want to sound like one of them dirty hippies, but I think it’d half kill Unity to go segregating everything. I know I’m making a few assumptions here, but it strikes me that a chunk of Indie users are liable to eventually upgrade to Pro. They may not have the initial funds or confidence in the product to go straight in at the deep end, or perhaps lack the skills to even require the more advanced features. I expect that plenty of students fit this bill, but I’m sure there are many besides. Shouldn’t we be treating Indie users therefore as potential customers?

With that in mind, were we to expose those potential customers only to inane drivel, begging and half-baked MMORPGs in some kind of metaphorical forum ghetto, how many of them would be liable to develop their skills and requirements to the point of making a purchase? I maintain that what we need is more common sense and tolerance, not some nanny-state mentality. Idiots are everywhere, but that doesn’t mean we have to pay attention to them. We’d do better to make more of an effort to help out the sane ones, that way the prannets would see what they were missing for want of a little spell checking, formatting and common courtesy. I can also guarantee that polite suggestions to improve in these areas would do better to improve the situation than any amount of abuse.

I for one don’t fancy catering to the lowest common denominator.