Reading “Getting Started with UE4” I am presented immediately with a better explanation of what a project is than I have ever heard from anything in the Unity universe. Note the use of big words. Note the use of computer terminology. Wow, it’s almost like the intended audience is intelligent, educated adults who know how computers work.
“A Project is a self-contained unit that holds all the content and code that make up an individual game and coincides with a set of directories on your disk. For example, in the image below the Hierarchy Tree of the Content Browser contains the same directory structure found inside your Project folder on your disk.”
@Master-Frog Might as well give UE a go. I downloaded it at one point, opened it and immediately closed it because the GUI was far more decked out than the Unity Editor and I just don’t get into all of this GUI stuff. But I know you have a different view on that so you may really like it. Or you may come back and say “what a nightmare!”
If I ever get around to checking out Game Guru and S2Engine HD I’ll let you know how they are. Probably are some videos out there for them or will be soonish. I just haven’t looked.
But yeah, Unity is a great all around general game development system. Probably one of the very best for what it is trying to do (allow everyone to make games that work basically everywhere). But that doesn’t mean there aren’t better tools available for a specific game type, a specific small range of platforms and so forth. Often you don’t need everything but the kitchen sink you just need the coffee pot to make one heck of a fine cup of coffee as soon as possible with no distractions. Same for game kits I think.
Oh… I am pretty sure I read there is only a one time payment for both of those options I listed and no royalties or anything else due when you sell the game so yes you can publish your games as far as I know. I do not know any details though. I just have them bookmarked to check out some time.
I’m not sure there is much $$$ potential in indie FPS games. Dko you really think you can bring something to the table on that genre that the AAA players haven’t?
You can also sell mods on steam if you are inclined.
There could be a gimmick. I’ve seen a game about enlarging your limbs from shooting said limb on an opponent and it simultaneously makes theirs shrink. But gimmicks aside, I doubt it.
Well, there is not much potential for $$$ any way you do it.
That way you could get what you want (generic shooter framework already there, reskin it with your own visuals or even just your own story campaign), with spending the minimum of time on it.
Really hard to gauge what you want exactly. You talk about Unity not being capable enough for your usecase, then you make it look like you have pretty modest requirements when it comes to visuals and all.
You want to save on time, thus work from a generic base (which is understandable), yet you find a problem in any advice offered to you… you know that the engine is not what makes those 3D objects look bad? Or are you looking for something that lets you work with existing 3D Models so you can skip that step too (neither Source nor Unreal will help you much there, modding will on the other hand)? You know that the chance your “generic FPS skinned with my own story” generates ANY $$$ is minimal, at best?
Go with FPS Creator, buy an existing Game Pack / Project to reskin, or hunt for opensourced FPS Games you could reskin online…
Or just mod a game like many did before.
Devil Daggers ! nearly 60k sales - at that price - nearing 250k. Not bad. That is $$$ potential imo.
I’m sure there are other examples - but I choose this one - simple.
FPS does not mean online multiplayer humdrum story, cod, high poly, gun jump fests. And a similar game to Perfect Dark, Goldeneye, Turok and Half-Life - might be too much for a lone developer who is already struggling with development before even starting.
There is room - people (indie devs) just need to think outside the box a little.
FPS games = paperback novels. People are never gonna stop making 'em until people stop buying them. Cheap thrills. Go figure. You don’t need to innovate in a FPS. Every cop drama is the same. I can see most story plot points coming from around a blind corner. Where I stutter is–does this mean that I can’t enjoy stories any more? Mmm, no. There’s still a little element of surprise in finding out whether my suspicions are confirmed or if they are subverted.
I wouldn’t target the AAA market. Why would I? How could I do that? I couldn’t get their attention with some little game with low-poly models where you’re basically playing a game from the late 90’s. What I know that I can do is what they call “transcend” a genre. Which is to simply say, hybridize FPS with other genres. I don’t want to say exactly what ratio of each genre I want to combine.
::shrugs:: I work on something, I get so far… I lose interest, but each time I learn more things, I gain new abilities. I don’t know how many of you have ever learned an artistic skill, such as music or drawing. I know most people will readily tell you they can’t draw worth a shit. Why is that? Because… when you were a kid, you didn’t try, because you figured it was too much for someone who couldn’t even draw a stick figure right. When I draw something, people are usually surprised how well I draw. Most people figure I was born with the ability to draw. Well, you’re not born knowing how do draw, sing or dance and you’re not born knowing how to make video games. I was shit at everything once. But I am brave and unafraid of falling flat on my face or being made fun of, or a spectacle of, and that’s why I succeed at everything I try… eventually. Eventually is the key operative.
My biggest weakness is the need for socialization, it probably has cost me a lot of time in terms of productivity, but I don’t even know what I would do without being able to talk to other people. Go crazy, most likely.
If I knew exactly how to make all the 3D models and rig them and configured the levels and lighting, if I knew exactly how to do it all… like it was recorded in my muscle memory from experience, rather than being something I still need to take my time with and ease my way through, then I could see it making sense… why haven’t you finished anything. But as I am, now, isn’t it obvious? Intelligence isn’t sufficient to get things done, you need more. You need skills, abilities which only come from practice, which only come from time.
You have to try to do things that are just beyond your ability level to get better. Otherwise, you just master doing things you already know how to do… which results in, well exactly that.
I wonder how many of you have improved as much in the last 2 years as I have? Have any of you ever considered that? I went from barely even knowing how to code in C# and being quite confused with Unity and 3D in general, to a place where I am making a first-person shooter without following any tutorial or anything. I’m just doing it. Modular walls, floor and ceiling, physics-based doors, I have a cool flashlight with a neat little cookie on it. I am still afraid of 3D modeling and rigging because I had trouble before, so I’m kind of nervous to jump back into it. But I did it before. I have learned about bone weighting and skinning.
I would estimate that over the last couple of years I have increased my knowledge of Unity and 3D rendering, 3D game development, storytelling and plot structure, game design, computer hardware, web architecture, advertising and marketing, programming and software engineering by about 100,000% (about 1000 times as much knowledge). Granted, this was only possible because I knew little to begin with. I mean, I had basic coding skills. I definitely lacked the abilities I have now.
I learned how to code in JavaScript, PHP and dabbled in Java and Ruby, C#, went back and re-learned C and C++, learned all about web design, all within the last 2 years. I’ve used every data structure in C# and I am familiar with most programming and software engineering concepts. I am still not the best with highly complex algorithms, but I still view all of that as kind of a specialty (and useless for my needs, not to mention) and almost sort of a graybeard hobby, like high-level competitive chess or card games, showing off how buff your gray matter is for sport. Hah.
And I have never even written touched writing shaders and have no intention to at this time.
I view this sort of thinking “you shouldn’t attempt something if you have struggled in the past” as being quite short-sighted and self-limiting. It probably makes people uncomfortable to see someone else struggling, it reminds them of their own humanity and weaknesses. It’s much better to never try (and thus never fail). Haha. It’s much easier when you never try because nobody ever looks directly at you and goes, “Wow, you do suck at that.” You just get to blend.
And people like me, the ones who are constantly wiping the egg off of our faces, we look at you guys with tightly pursed lips and a slight head shake, thinking to ourselves, “Humiliation I can handle. Failure I can live with. But that… just looks so boring.” And I bet it is, quite boring. The most fun you can have is poking fun at the people who put themselves out there. Hence celebrity culture and its popularity.
But I digress. If I fail again, I will try again. And I will get closer and closer each time (if I stop getting closer, then I will know that it’s over) until I finally do it and be so self-impressed. And I will say “See, I told you I could do it!” and expect everyone to eat their words, and instead all I will get is “Took you long enough!” or “I could have done that myself!” or the tried and true standby “You suck!” And I will literally die of an aneurysm.
On the one hand, I have always craved that approval… I wanted validation so badly that the easiest way to get it was to just say, “I’m making this game!” and then get all the excitement and energy from that, but then trying to make the game wasn’t as fun as the initial excitement of starting a new one. And plus, I would hit technical barriers anyway and not know how to remove the impediments. And so, have to stop and figure out how to move forward, and in so doing become even more bored… and then suddenly find inspiration in a new idea, and restart the process. It worked for me for a while. But, something is happening now that I’m older, I find myself asking more frequently, “Why are you doing that?” and “Why are you saying these things?” and “…Isn’t that a bit much?” or “Why the fuck do you care so much about what this person/these people think about you?” and I’m like… whoa, that is a little fucked up.
I’m so confused, though… I thought everyone on this entire website had me on Ignore. So… why are people replying to this thread? Weird. Must be some kind of a glitch.
@voltage - I’m done arguing on the internet, buddy. I meant it.
I probably shouldn’t have even posted this, but I still crave having my thoughts validated by other people. When I figure out how to stop wanting that it will be a good day for me.
When you make these sweeping generalizations, it confuses me just on who you’re talking about. If you’re insinuating it’s us, I disagree. I completely believe we’re all passionate about game dev. (And thus, we work at it.) Even you.
Clearly you’re passionate. I can see some of myself in your attitude towards progressing further. I was in a 2D only rut the first couple of years and learned 3D in 1. After hitting that milestone I felt empowered. I’ve been trying to learn Unet for 5 months now. It’s very hard, but it’s getting easier.
@Master-Frog - I see my statement may have come across as a pointed finger saying you can’t do something like that because you are struggling. Please forgive my shortsightedness composing my thought, I was not talking about you - and I would never. I apologize to you if what I wrote came across as demeaning and wasn’t clear.
To clarify - I may have been projecting a little - when I said a struggling developer might be overstepping trying to create a similar game to the ones you listed. I may have been projecting because of my own personal situation and schedule - I have less time than I wish I had to try to create something as compelling as others can create. 3-4 hours a night does not leave a lot of time to do stuff. Especially when we are trying to think critically and creatively, design and develop, problem solving, and keeping up with current development trends, family and life. 3-4 hours a night is so minimal, after a full day of work. And yet I want to create something special also. So this statement reflects my own personal situation, not anybody else.
However in my brain - I was trying to suggest to look at Devil Daggers and other similar - small - short, compelling FPS games which aren’t similar to cod, or the standard formula for FPS games.
A game like that is pretty interesting imo, and the modest amount of money it has earned is impressive - to me.
I could see a game similar to this, not so hard - with a story, and more “levels” getting made by anyone of us, and it being a success.
Isn’t this an example of success for an indie game?
Personally - I really like seeing other people succeed. I also hope I end up with something that other people see as a good quality product someday. Even if it’s not a money maker, I’d really like to have a game that other people play and comment on. I want to create a game one day that people on steam comment on negatively about - “Well this isn’t as good as (input similar AAA game here) it doesn’t have this and that”.
And when you do it - I will also be happy for you. I think other developers here also want to see us succeed - we want to see each other be happy and successful - however we as individuals measure that.
When you return to address these points that are difficult - holler at me offline.
Well that certainly changes the way it comes across.
Recently I decided to learn how to grow plants, knowing nothing about them at all. It started as a result of my last abandoned project, which was to be a 2D side-scrolling survival game where you create a little base and battlements and stave off zombies. As a part of this, I wanted you to have to cultivate food on a roof in order to survive long-term, as scavenging would eventually result in the resource depletion in your immediate vicinity. I was so excited. But, then I got side-tracked and I wanted to know how long do plants actually take to produce food? Is this even feasible? I looked it all up online and got lots of weird answers, so I really wanted to try it out for myself.
At first, all my plants would die. I kept making mistakes. Too wet, too dry, mold would develop, they would wilt, etc. I tried putting them outside but the sun was so intense that it fried them. Southern California is a rather inhospitable environment for living things, despite what you would be led to believe. “Sunny” can be a bad thing, as well. I eventually found a way to make them grow, but with the fluorescent lighting they started to curl and become sickly. It seemed after days of watching them grow, it was all over. Until the angle of the sun changed and I put them in the window sill in the bathroom. They sprouted new leaves and started growing again.
How is this relevant? How isn’t it? I mean, what’s the difference between growing a radish or green onion from a seed or making a cool FPS game in your spare time? I met a lady with a huge garden and she told me I was “brave” to try growing from seed. And now I’m brave to try to create a game on my own. And really, what is all this talk of bravery? All it means is… if I fail, it won’t be the end of me. Which is to say, I’m strong enough to take some hits on the way to getting what I want. I am undeterred by impediments.
Now this, this is actual, real-life bonafide sage wisdom:
It will always seem like you’re “getting nowhere”. That seed in the middle? It was one of 8, of those eight only 7 sprouted and even then only after days in a cold, moist environment protected from air movement. After it was planted in the soil, it took over a week before anything green popped up from the soil. The other plants were already sprouting leaves by the time this one even showed signs of life. The green onion takes 120 days to reach maturity. That’s 4 months. That is how the universe works. Things take time. Progress is slow. The real problem is not that game development takes too long, it’s that people are too impatient. We are too used to instant gratification.
I won’t touch on what I said before, exactly. Suffice it to say, there’s a lot of people who call themselves game developers who will never release a game on Steam or one of the console streaming services, because they don’t have foresight. They don’t understand that things take time and that the key is slow and steady and not a big push that leads ultimately only to frustration.
A short, compelling game that costs only a fraction of what major AAA titles cost is exactly the sort of thing that people at our level should be aiming for. We should be satisfied with meager sums of money, such as a few hundred or a few thousand dollars. I agree. But we must also be willing to accept that it takes effort to get there. Your story is not much different from mine, or all that much different than many of us. We all have responsibilities and sometimes it can be super overwhelming. The free time you do have you don’t want to “waste” making games. And the time you do spend doesn’t seem to get you anywhere.
I am carefully avoiding pointing at specific people because I just don’t want to do that. I don’t want to invite that kind of heat. But there are people as I have described above and I have encountered them and so has anyone who has ever tried to do stuff. I was watching an episode of the Simpsons the other day:
And there was a line in an episode that rang out to me… the bullies said, “Look. People who do things. The bully’s natural enemy…”. I think that pretty much summarized all of it for me, my feelings toward a lot of people who say awful things all of the time on here. I don’t know if you were all aware of this, but recently a member of this community said that Unity staff should literally have to kill themselves after the forum software update.
I mean when is it too much? Honestly? Is there no point at which enough is enough?
I hope that clarifies my meaning. I don’t know I am allowed to stand up to negativity and personal attacks on here, anymore. Lately it seems like the rules should be changed to this: “Unity forums are basically here to fuck shit up. Talk shit about everyone and everything you want, especially that asshole frog… since he thinks he’s better than everyone else. Hell, let the moderators get in on it. That’ll be hilarious.”
I read that the Goldeneye developers made the levels without any kind of plan in mind and then later on tacked-on objectives and added key objects to the environment, such as computer terminals and scientists, keycards, etc. They said this resulted in an unintentionally “non-linear” feel to the gameplay which they couldn’t have done intentionally even if they had wanted to.
They also thought Goldeneye was going to be a complete flop.
Honestly, the roughest part (for me, anyway) of making levels at this point is just doing it right so that everything lines up nice and cleanly and getting the lighting nice. You can’t, for example, just leave gaps between door frames and stair ways and things like that. Sadly, both of these tasks (snapping together level geometry) and getting reliable “baked” lighting and nice-looking shadows and reflections are sketchy with Unity. Not to mention, it murders my computer. I can get even better graphics than the Unity demo projects from Unreal and my computer doesn’t even lag. I can see that building the lighting in larger stages will be a few minutes, but at least I can get really quick preview lighting.
Right now I’m going to focus on learning 3D modeling, my skills are… well, they’re a bit shit and I need to get them up to par. Luckily, again, Unreal has these things called 3D brushes where you can basically build your level out of these dynamic 3D objects (they even have the ability to punch holes in walls with “negative” geometry) so you can get it working even before you import your 3D models (which they refer to as “static geometry”). In fact, the recommended workflow is to brush block your level and test it before you make all your artwork. So, I’m good. Normally the gameplay and level designers end up waiting on the artists… so in this case, I’m going to be waiting on… myself… ???
Let me know how Unreal works out for you. Was thinking of using it for a new FPS game myself, in between the other projects I have going. There’s always room in my collection for good story-driven FPS games. Good luck.
I wouldn’t get so gung ho as to suggest you don’t need pretty graphics. I like pretty graphics. I like architecture. I like guns. I like aliens. I like conspiracy theories. That game you just showed is probably literally the opposite of what I want, zero story, all action plus gore. Don’t get me wrong, if I shoot something in the head with a shotgun… I expect to see some blood effects. If I don’t, I am disappointed. That’s what games have done to me. But for the most part, I don’t like super gore.
Don’t expect this game Strafe to become the #1 best selling game of all time, that’s all I’m gonna say. And yes, it will be because the graphics. Haha.
