Problem with player content is not just too many faces, but also you will be forced to control some content. I am all for free speech, but not on a server where I am responsible for what happens. Every bit of content would have to go through an approval process, to make sure there are no game making bugs (yes, bad models are bad) and to make sure the content is not derogatory, insulting to some player group, etc. I don’t want to weed out white supremacist or Nazi symbols or X-rated stuff. I don’t want to spend hours wading through bad models…or have to hire a team to do just that.
There are ways to add player content, but it will be time consuming and expensive from a labor point of view. Using volunteers is frowned upon in this day and age…lawsuits and all.
Looks like all I may have to do is sit around and wait a few years for a new interesting take on MMOs. And here I had gone and given up on MMORPG devs. haha
According to you guys, the ONLY thing I think I probably will not be seeing in the genre in the future is the combat mechanics I thought up (which probably aren’t nearly as unique I as think).
May just give it a few years, and see what happens in the genre.
My idea is basically give a certain amount of animations, models, etc… and let players assign stats on the items, housing, and abilities based on XP, current player stats, and other accumulated currency. Have basic attack animations that can be chained in combination, etc. (Ofc, this all seems for feasible when you understand how my combat mechanics would work.)
Then, also allow players with development skills to submit more models and animations for use. If you made a basic development kit, that closely resembled a character creator (just adjust already used models), with the ability to apply imported textures… this all becomes more feasible. YES, reviewing all of it would be a bit time consuming… but unless you are far too strict, most of it should pass or fail on a glance. Not hard to get the man-power for that. Of course, always have a reporting feature for when something slips through the cracks.
It SHOULDN’T be a nightmare at all. And, so what if your game has a few offensive things or a bit of nudity? I don’t get why it really matters. People crack me up… they want to play a game where they can camp “newbs,” but QQ because someone has the username Hitler. Personally… I’d rather lose those players than cater to them… but I guess for everyone else it’s about making as much money as possible. And that’s fine, money does make the world go 'round… but no one will ever fix the stagnation in MMORPGs if their first concern is money.
It depends entirely on who you are offending and with what subject. Some countries may outright ban your game if they feel it doesn’t comply with their regulations. Australia is particularly known for this.
I was trying to say that without stating an example such as someone erecting a statue of some genitals in town square.
Maybe have an adult rated server to house models like that, the same way second life does.
As you forge gear, granting you gear-crafting experience and giving you access to better gear, the gear itself contains skills that you can use. While crafting the item you even get a choice on some of the skills. Crafting a beginner chest piece gives you 3 spells. The optional slot can contain a healing spell or I think a speed buff or a passive health buff. I first saw this concept in .hack// and have been upset that it hasn’t been in any games until recently
They also want weapons to be tied to a role. So if you want to be a tank, then you go for a mace because mace class weapons in Albion tend to cause knockback and stun effects, increasing your effectiveness in your role as a tank. Weapons and armors fit together based on the bonuses and skills you need to best create your role. You can be a full on mage, but maybe you want to have heavy melee weapons for high damage and magic robes to regain your mana faster to cast lots of skills.
There’s a lot of things they’re doing that I personally love because it’s a combination of a few of my favorite games. There’s probably still room for innovation though if you can still put a team together to develop your idea.
It matters because it matters to the people who put ratings on your games. “Offense is taken, not given” doesn’t go very high up the chain of command. We reasonable people always find ourselves on the bottom.
But what else can you expect from people? Guided by emotion, they are unreasonable and unreliable with contradictory ideologies that only stick together when they have authoritarian sub-societies.
This is true, but as I said… it comes down to money, really, doesn’t it?
You’re still going to be dealing with “rotations” with this concept. Also, with a system like this, you’ll be limiting what abilities a character can use, more than I think should be limited. I prefer a different system, altogether.
Basically, have basic attacks/abilities for melee, ranged, and magic… but make those adjustable based on the character’s skill in each one. Even allow for adjustable visual effects. However, that would just be the start.
(I hate to say this, but the idea I’m about to say comes directly from SAO… how in ALO, characters can make their own finishing moves)
Basically, rather than having an action bar of dev-made abilities, allow characters to piece together the basic moves, with their own tweaks, to create combos and place those on their action bar instead. The potential effectiveness of the combos would depend on a variety of things: How well the initial recording of the combo was executed, character stats, and how the attacks are arranged.
On top of that, every basic attack/ability can be countered by another, even in the middle of a combo, interrupting the combo. Though I USUALLY hate prompts, basically have prompts to parry/block/dodge attacks. Obviously some attacks are faster and some are slower… adjust prompts accordingly. The prompts will basically tell you which abilities you can use in that split second to counter your opponent. Obviously, the prompt feature will only be usable on one opponent at a time. And there is always the stealth attack.
I know, it sounds so crazy… but it beats the hell out of a rotation, in my opinion.
Understandable, to a degree. If you’re using a shield, you are obviously going to be more tanky. However, I like the GW2 system that leans more to being self-reliant… because at the end of the day, being confined to strict roles is unrealistic. That’s why PvP builds tend to be much more self-reliant, even in games with definitive roles.
And, I’d like to really focus on the PvP aspect. Personally, I’d want to focus on more small scale PvP. I’ve seen large, war-like PvP…and I didn’t like what I saw. Dueling systems would be important. Betting items/money in duels would be allowed. You could even bet your “life” in certain situations. By life, I mean permanent character deletion for the loser.
Then you have to deal with griefing, right? Simple fix: If someone kills someone outside a duel request at least 10 times within 20 minutes, the griefing character will be toggled to a mode that will cause it to be permanently deleted if killed by another player. So, they can have fun with that. If they’re just that awesome, they have nothing to worry about… if they’re just picking on the weak, they better hope someone stronger doesn’t come along.
In a world where 8-year-olds are playing GTA, I’m amused we’re that worried about what it is rated at. Seriously… your audience will NOT drop very drastically if it is rated Mature. In fact, I believe that would actually be a selling point.
But, again, it goes back to people more worried about how much money they are going to make, rather than producing something different. Fairly common in the entertainment industry, kind of how all the movie studios are doing movies adapted from comic books, because they’re making money and the stories are already written. Or if you look at how similar Mazerunner, Divergent, and Hunger Games are. Sure, they are slightly different, but the meat and potatoes of all three of the series is the same… all made into movies one after the other… because they were making money. Reality TV… Seriously… do I have to explain this one?
The problem right now is that no one with the money has any desire or ability to risk losing money. Everyone who wants something different is stuck without the means to create it. So, we’re stuck in this cycle of crappy, cookie-cutter, games until someone with some money runs the risk of doing something different.
And IF it turns out really successful, we’ll be sick of that in a few years, too, because that’s what everyone in the gaming industry will switch to.
Sorry about the rant… not sure where all this anger is coming from. hehe
I don’t think you get the point. I don’t have a problem with nudity or even sex in games. I prefer that to violence, to be honest.
However…as stated above by Tomnnn, some countries would not allow your game to be sold if certain symbols were shown. Others are strict about certain kinds of violence. Some regard sex as only appropriate for M rated games. If you rate your game as M, you can do more, but…you are restricting the market for your game. People in certain countries will not be able to play it. We are an international community here, so take that in mind when you request information.
Also…offensive content will define your player base. Some people will not be comfortable with certain symbols or content. They will leave the game. They will warn others not to play the game. Reviews will be out. This can be good as in might get you in the news…however, again, you are defining who plays your game. If you wish to be a niche game that is sold only in countries that have no restriction on content and rate the game M, you will be fine…maybe.
This has been done before and failed. “There” was a virtual world where people could make their own content. I used to play there at times and it was interesting, sort of. They used templates and everything. Look it up. Now, you will hopefully have more purpose than “There” did, which was mostly socializing…although it did have some games.
Second Life also does this and they give a lot of freedom. It is not new or innovative and hasn’t been in years.
We are making a niche game and we do not expect to make a lot of money. Niche groups are small and a game created specifically for a niche group is going to create a game that the masses won’t play. We are not doing this to make money. I am making a game I want to play and making it for a community that wants to play our game.
I think it is a huge leap from concerns about player created content and the logistics involved to “money is the first concern”. I don’t think that is it at all. We are trying to help you avoid some of the pitfalls, things you may not have thought of like the bans on certain content in countries, ratings issues, and the logistics of approving player content. You asked…Anything else?
You can take it as you wish. We get MMO developer wannabes every day and this will be a thread they can read as well. You came here to gather information, and we are giving it to you. You can use it or not. Your choice.
Seriously, I do encourage you to try, whether now or in a few years.
AAA companies, yes, that is true. They have shareholders and that is how the functions. Indies? No, we are taking risks every day and creating games that are different and unique.
I am sure you are sincere…as I have used that same argument with people who ask why I no longer play the big MMO’s.
However, you are talking to Indie game developers here, not just gamers and not AAA corporations. MMOs are difficult to make for Indie teams, but technology is making it easier. With Unity’s Unet just around the corner, I think we will see more multiplayer/MMO’s in 2-5 years and my guess is most of them will be smaller niche games that appeal to aspects of MMO’s.
Most of us do not do this to make money, because it is very difficult to get rich in this industry. If you get a Minecraft or an Angry Birds, maybe. But few of us will get that. We make games because we love to make games. There are those who come to make money, and they make clones usually…and there are those who are very very good, so their games do sell.
But the majority…we do it because we enjoy making games.
PS: I get the anger. I rant at times too, although usually to my family who are all game developers too. lol
Believe it or not, I do appreciate the advice, and I apologize to everyone for my abrasive personality. It also probably doesn’t help that I’m incredibly frustrated at the entertainment industry as a whole, right now.
My only point was that Mature games have historically done quite well… even if not necessarily in the MMORPG side. Like I said, we live in a world where 8-year-olds play GTA.
I feel like if you filtered out the incredibly offensive material, and didn’t worry about the minor things, you’d be ok. Banned in some countries? Sure. But, I don’t think that making your audience as large as possible, at the expense of what you consider quality, is always the right move. Not sure I said that correctly.
I absolutely agree with that. Our game will grow with our player base, that way, if we have 500 players, the world will still be busy enough to encourage people to play. If we have 1000 players, we add on to the world. If we have 100 players, we will deal with that in other ways. I would be perfectly happy with 100 players.
As I said, we are going for niche. We want to eliminate a large portion of the MMO population from our game. lol Seems crazy, but our target audience wants that. Whether they are big enough to sustain an MMO in the long term, who knows. Since for us this is a labor of love, just finishing will be enough.
Understood and you are forgiven. Just remember, there is a large number of us here for the same reasons.
Yes, but there is a difference. In an MMO, you cannot control the “content”, and I mean the players, how they act, what they say, etc. What happens when that 8 year old’s mother finds out he is being sexually solicited by some 40 year old guy? You get the phone call, the letter from lawyers, etc. Yeah, you can make them put in their birth date, and even request ID, but you can never be sure that they are all adults.
So…not a big deal until one bad parent doesn’t watch what his/her kids do online.
You may not care…but as a parent, I care. I am a good parent, I watch what my kids do online…and my kids are teens. I talk to them about dangers and they tell me bad experiences they have online. We communicate, but not all kids do.
Not your problem, right? Maybe…but with the way things are going in my country alone, I seriously wouldn’t want to be the test case for unfiltered content in some congressional hearing or a supreme court case. Might up the popularity of the game, but not sure I want to try to defend something like this.
I’d be interested in knowing what you are creating. I agree that the bulk of the current MMO crowd does not belong in my ideal game. Why? Because the bulk of MMO players want everything to be easy, copy a certain skill set, and tap buttons until it dies. (I know that is an oversimplification) Most MMO gamers aren’t gamers at all, they’re just socializing and earning shiny new loot that is the equivalent of a participation medal.
Not that there are not good gamers in MMOs… there are… they are the theorycrafters, from whom the bulk gets their builds, and hard core raiders, pushing into new content first, who document boss strategies for everyone else to copy.
Ideally, I’d prefer a MMO where everyone has to figure most of it out for themselves… and not everything works for everyone… with enough viable “builds” with multiple purposes to keep theorycrafters busy into the next century.
Yeah, that’s a tall order.
Disclose beforehand. Simply state that you must be 17-18 or older to play, require credit card info, or some such nonsense. Simple as that. I also have kids. Two girls, actually. So, I get it. However, it is really on the parents at that point.
Teenagers smoke illegally - We still sell cigarettes at the convenience store.
Teenagers drink - We still have liquor stores.
I think that not creating a product for adults, simply because a child MAY partake regardless of the warning, is probably a bad policy.
Heck, there are free “adult videos” all over the internet… so I really don’t see why a game with mature entertainment (filtering out the explicit, of course) or offensive material would be a problem.
And as far as underage people being solicited goes… there are still chat rooms in abundance, and that’s been a problem since day 1.
That isn’t what I meant. We should create games for adults. However, player created content in an MMO is another story. That is my opinion. If you want to allow any content, complete free speech, you are going to attract a certain mindset. That mindset is going to create a certain atmosphere.
Personally, that is not an audience I want but…it might be your preferred audience.
I don’t want real-life religious wars in my game or real life political dramas, t-shirts with Donald Trump, or Nazi symbols, or misogynistic dialogue. I want players to engage in a fictional world, enjoy themselves, and create the conflict from the lore and story, not from the real world.
Remember, the game WE want to play? That is not my game. As I said in a previous thread, this is how I feel about it. You are free to do as you wish.
See… it isn’t so black and white, though. Have an RP server for those who like to RP, if you fail to RP and cause problems with RL issues, you can be reported and placed in a non-RP server.
For normal servers there is the block button. AND, you could easily add an option to censor certain skins and skins worn by certain people. Just have those targeted by the censorship show the default texture rather than the custom.
However, it seems you are more or less wanting a troll-free environment… That WILL take a lot of man-power. A ton more manpower than approving new player-made models and skins. If you think you can target a troll-free audience, I’d be thoroughly interested in how you plan to make that feasible.
Short version: You are pointing out problems with easy solutions or that cannot be completely fixed in an online multiplayer game.
Everyone wants a troll free environment but I am not so naive to think that will be possible. Trolls have nothing at all to do with inappropriate custom content.
I think this is one of those things you have to see to understand.
While we cannot completely eliminate inappropriate behavior, it is certainly possible to anticipate problems that might arise due to our own game design and find ways we might deal with them. Unanticipated issues that surprise us can lead to mass exodus from our game. So better to be prepared.
Allowing almost complete freedom of player content with no more than a glance over them seems a prime example of not anticipating problems. However, you can do what you want.
I feel like you are trying to convince me to agree with you but my experience has told me otherwise. Enjoy and have fun. Can’t wait to hear back from you in a few years and hope you surprise me.
Completely ignoring an in-game censorship feature and a report button… which I have already suggested… seems to be a prime example of ignoring the counter argument simply because you want to be “right.”
Not that there will not be problems with it… I’m sure there are number of things I haven’t anticipated… just not the problems you see. I’ve given solutions to those. Rather simple ones, too.
I do appreciate help. However, it seems you don’t want to discuss anything… rather, you want to lecture… and when I offer solutions, you ignore them.
I’m not here to argue, however, and I’m definitely not here to bash my head against that box until you’re able to think outside of it.
There is no right or wrong. There is only what we are willing to do. You asked for advice, I am giving it, which I guess means I am lecturing. But I guess really, you wanted to lecture us about money and our motives as game developers instead of accepting the advice, tossing what you don’t want and keeping what helps you. That is fine but I think we have exhausted it. Let us end before it turns into personal insults, which helps neither of us. Let us support each other instead.
Again, good luck. I really like that you are willing to go to somewhere new, but I am going to have to ignore you from now on, only because I have a major issues I am dealing with at the moment with some grass…lol. So I can’t keep being compelled to come here and respond because of that stupid little alert at the top.
I love having new MMO creators at the forums and truly, I wish you luck.
Ah, that clarifies what you’d like to do. Usually when games do this, it’s the focus of the entire game. I think pop-up dungeon is going to have a fully featured version of this, where you can choose all kinds of settings to create spells. And you can add extras like “can’t move while casting” or “only has a range of 1 block” as negatives so you can reduce the spell cost or increase the damage.
I don’t have a problem with nudity or even sex in games. I prefer that to violence, to be honest.
