Hey guys, with the recent release of hatred, a game which caused a lot of controversy and panic among gamers and parents, I was wondering what you guys thought on using controversy to help market and sell your game.
Is it a good business idea and marketing decision, or does it make you a bad developer and a harm to the industry? Is putting out a trailer which looks super awful, but isn’t that bad in-game to spark a response a bad thing or a good thing.
I’m personally am making a game myself but since its my first ever real official game, marketing is new to me, so this post will surely open my mind to more points of view on the subject.
If you are interested in that kind of marketing, read the book “Trust me, I’m Lying.” Controversy can lead to sales. With certain games, it might even be the most effective type of marketing. For a game like hatred, it was easily the right way to promote that specific game. Just keep in mind controversy is not the right solution for all games, though.
Those things aren’t mutually exclusive. I’d argue that “Hatred” was both a good business idea and from a bad developer.
I don’t like liars. I don’t think that people should manufacture outrage (or other negative emotions) in order to further their own success. So I can’t possibly think well of these developers for pulling this stunt.
But it’s pretty clear that they got a lot more sales from doing it.
It’s pretty clear you’ve already realized that this was an unethical thing to do. So the question you’re really asking is: “Should I be unethical in order to increase my monetary gain?”
Its pretty tricky to outrage them without crossing the line. For example an ISIS simulator might cause controversy or they might bring down the ban hammer on you.
Which almost happened to Hatred on Greenlight until Gabe stepped in.
Anyway, it basically boils down to what @ShilohGames had said - it won’t work for all games - what may work for gritty, violent twinstick shooter won’t necessarily work for cutesy, flat-shaded 3D platformer about a computer virus.
Thanks for the response guys! Interesting to hear what you guys think on this!
Yeah, the whole controversy thing can be effective depending on what type of game you are making and can boost sales, but at the same time it is unethical to slyly trick your audience into marketing your game for you.
But is there such thing as bad press, if the game you develop is a really good game with heart and soul put into it, but the business marketing behind the scenes was unethical and shady, wouldn’t it be a give and take situation? Would anyone care about hatred controversy if the game turned out to be really good?
I think as long as the games good and the consumers are getting their monies worth from the game, then using controversy as a marketing method is a wound which will heal over time, with a good game getting the marketing it needs in a large and popular industry, especially since a lot of indie games from non popular developers sometimes never get played. The money made from this game could also go into making more games which may not use the controversy method as they have gained a bit of popularity from thier first release.
Your reputation may precede you. Keep in mind that it’s not all about marketing the game and especially as an indie you’ll be personally branded by the way you market and the type of game you produce. Is it worth being thought of as a total slimeball and not respected I’m amy professional circles just to make a few extra bucks? Even if it’s a lot of extra bucks, personally the answer for me would always be no. I hold dignity and professionalism as highly important ideals and moral values and I think you should as well bit that’s totally up to you.
Parents? Maybe from previous generations. Gamers? I think not. Gamers should be 1 of 2 kinds of people. 1 who think there is no line to cross because it’s just pixels. I think that would be some of us, as game developers. The other should be at least honest enough to admit to themselves that they’ve done considerably more terrible things to people in other games.
ISIS simulator is pretty much every guerrilla army game ever, but from the perspective of another nation. If GTA V took place in saudi arabia, it’d pretty much be ISIS simulator. I think a game where you play as an american police officer would have you commit more terrible things than any ISIS fighter is capable of.
R.I.P. Dillon Taylor
What if 1 year you make educational children’s games, then the next year you start putting out GTA-like and Hatred-like games?
Nah. If you want controversy, just make a cute little story game about the life of Aisha. I’d elaborate on that, but I fear for my life and the life of this thread. That combination of characters on the screen alone is enough for aurora or hippo to come by and shut it down.
Controversy is easy, just go to any news story involving something culture specific, and see how people are taking it in the comments. “Sex slave” is impersonal, and SJWs would love that game actually… if the slaves were white males.
If you want the most controversial game ever, just spend an afternoon talking to me lol Hatred missed their chance to go all out and involve children, animals, destructible planned parenthood clinics, homeless shelters, daycare centers, churches, etc.
They also f’d up by making it a twin stick shooter. I won’t go into how much more graphic it would be in first person since GTA V exists, but yea, it could have been done better.
Who are you harming though? The little kids who aren’t supposed to play games like that in the first place? The men who’re already spoiled with pointless shooting and exploding? I can only see good coming out of Hatred’s controversy.
Hatred did nothing but damage to the game industry IMO, I really do hope that kind of shit never happen again. I love games, and it feels pretty bad to me that even my mother heard about that game(she haven’t played a game since worms 2), and in her eyes(and in a billion other people’s) games look like stupid, pointless, violent crap. They will never hear about the amazing story and visuals of bioshock, alan wake, kotor(okay, that game never looked good, but the story is better than any book, movie, or game I have ever seen), and so on. These games are not just software, they are art. But Hatred? “Come buy our game because it’s so so dark, and you can prove everyone that your soul is dark, too. Dark.” And if you are not interested in gaming, you will hear about Hatred, and probably nothing else.
From a marketing standpoint, sure, it gave them a lot more attention, but personally I wouldn’t make anything like that. But the same thing happened to the music\movie industry, so I guess in the long term it’s inevitable.
There are so many things in your arguments I can’t agree with. I can think of so many games that are much, much worse than Hatred. Plus, Hatred isn’t even targeting the audience you mentioned and FFS, of course they will hear about Bioshock if that’s what they’re looking for.
What the hell is the problem with a game being dark for the sake of being dark? Human Centipede is just that, and no one’s saying that it ruined the film industry. Edgar Allen Poe’s writings follow a similar path. Darkness is just another quality of humanity that’s interesting to explore.
I can respect the creators of Hatred because their game is one of quality and uniqueness - not something ripped off the Asset Store or put together for a quick buck.
This reminds me of Rockstar games, if your going to use controversy and get hate, then make that the whole company brand name. There is a huge audience for it and you only have to serve them to keep going.
@jpthek9
My problem with hatred is that more people are aware of it just because it’s violent, and everyone make assumptions based on their own (in this case limited) knowledge. They didn’t looked for Hatred either, they heared about it because even non gamers were aware of “the game where you kill innocent people for fun”. If something like that goes viral, it harms the industry, because if you are not particularly interested in gaming, you might think that every single game is just like that - do you think that will make any good to gaming’s reputation?
And no, I’m not talking about violence, I’m talking about pointless violence. Let’s take a look at GTA, as everyone who defends Hatred says you can do the same there. In GTA, every single person is the worst you can think of(for example, in GTA4 there was a mission where you could choose to let the guy go, or kill him, if you didn’t killed him a few missions later he came back and tried to kill you - now, that’s not pointless violence, or being dark just because why not). Also GTA has great gameplay, story, dialogue, you can do so much more beyong shooting everyone. On the other hand, Hatred is a top down shooter with execution animations, and… nope, that’s about it. Ohh yeah, and pointless violence, to make money. It’s just a crash grab like the flappy bird clones, or grass simulator. If I would make a raping simulator with detailed graphics it would be just as popular as Hatred - well, I wouldn’t make any money as probably no one would let it in their store, but for the sake of the discussion let’s assume they would -, do you think anyone should make a game like that? It’s a game, no one’s getting hurt, so why not, but I think people shouldn’t enjoy simulated rape, either simulated mass killing. And before the “you kill people in most games” argument comes to the surface; they are not unarmed, and they will try to kill you, so killing them isn’t for fun, but for survival.
And I think you misunderstood me, I was talking about people who aren’t playing games, why would they hear about the games I mentioned? They are not news worthy to non gamers.
@jpthek9
It harms gaming’s reputation. It’s just like that small percentage of let’s say WoW players, who quit their job, and never leaves the room just to play the game - most people, who aren’t playing MMOs, or any games at all will think most of the WoW\MMO players are like that, because they only hear about stories like this. Or the crazy stories about players who even murdered someone because the guy stole his character\gear\anything - those people are not became like this because of a game, there were trouble in their head in the first place. Now, someone who only hear these particular stories will think that the whole gaming community is full of violent no lifers, and that’s not a good marketing material for any kind of industry. Btw every industry must get new customers in order to stay alive, and I’m pretty sure if this is the first game a parent will see(and there is a pretty big chance for that as it got more media coverage than most games - outside of the gaming industry of course) he\she won’t support gaming(and gaming need non gamers support - money -, because who else would buy cod every year?).
