What things could UT remove from Unity?

What things (feature, platform, service) do you think Unity Technologies could remove to make resources available to work on something else? And what could that “something else” be?

It might not be practical to move people to a completely different field though. For example “Drop UnityAds and let them work on a terrain system” might not make a lot of sense.

I wouldn’t mind if they drop Linux editor support and let the team work on a Visual Scripting editor instead. I think a lot more people would benefit from having a Visual Scripting editor, than the 0.4% of users that use the Linux editor.

They could safely stop developing their own Input API in favor of just hiring the guy who is developing Rewired. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Hire Adam Goodrich and make Gaia the default terrain generator.

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Deprecate the terrain system entirely in favour of a robust BSP-like prototyping system with export tools so you can go from prototype to final product like you can in UE4. Of all the things I miss from UE4, this is the most difficult to bear because god, ProBuilder just isn’t nearly as good.

Nothing. Something that is not being maintained, does not take resources. It just sits in the codebase, collecting dust.

Removing something will not make the rest of the code better, and will not make devleopment of other features faster. It actually can produce a hiccup because the existing system will have to be decoupled from the engine source.

In my experience UE4 community hates BSP and has elitists that look down at anyone who suggests it might be a good useful tool. (look up “Geometry 2.0” thread in suggestio nforums). It is quite crazy.

I’d love to have proper BSP, but it tackles different kind of problem and not the one that terrain system is supposed to deal with.

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really people hate it, you dont have to use it and can make a game with 100% meshes. Also it is nice to be able to play with a level layout and quickly iterate on ideas with it. But maybe i am just old school since i grew up using mostly idTech and goldSrc when first getting into games.

No, since visual scripting can be user-implemented, and has been, while the Linux editor cannot. Not to mention that those two things are entirely different, which is especially ironic since you just got done (correctly) saying that moving people to different fields doesn’t make sense. :wink: Also, looking merely at the percentage of current users as the only consideration is short-sighted, particularly since the Linux editor is in beta and isn’t easily found. I don’t use Linux but I certainly support having a Linux editor in development, and maybe it will even be officially released some day.

The only things I could support removing are things that are 100% redundant given current features, such as GUIText/GUITexture, or build targets for old dead platforms. Otherwise removing things just for the sake of it is destructive.

–Eric

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Why? Devs that want a great terrain tool can just buy Gaia. The asset store works perfectly for filling the needs of developers beyond what Unity provides directly.

I think more of a focus on quality and less on chasing features is certainly in order. I mean 2017 should never have been released in the state it was. But then I think most veteran Unity devs have figured out the wisdom of hanging back a few releases.

So people won’t have the headache of managing multiple licenses or figuring out how to make their assets work legally in situation where remote teams are removed.

Functionality that is built into the engine is preferrable to the one that can be obtained from asset store.

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Yeah I also wouldn’t want them dropping linux editor despite not having touched it yet… its there for the day I abort windows as a desktop completely ok…ie the day I’m forced to use windows 10 instead of win7 at home, and linux desktop variants have finally matched old windows xp in features, stability, security and software eco system lol… ok well that might not be happening that fast those linux idiots seem to want to remove desktop icons now, so just hope amd, intel, nvidia hardware all sorta work on win7 for longer… or have workarounds to get new hardware working.

Also Unity are already dropping stuff out of the editor… like An Update on Substance Format Support in Unity albeit the replacement is meant to be ready by the time 2018.1 is out… so maybe ok.

I don’t think they should remove much already in the editor though… its pretty bare as it is personally …even if you don’t use half a dozen different things like lightbaking, 2d, 3d, particles etc in a project. Though I think 2018 will have some much needed editor improvements… But until they actually have the better plugin system added and all the features/bugs added and ironed out from that… and people inside unity and asset developers start using it… so it can be community tested, then dismantle everything in the editor and into a plugin based system.

Because otherwise it would be a bit like those morons at Google/Mozilla etc pushing industry direction like removing support and pushing plugins like Unity web player, flash etc out of the ecosystem when the replacement technology webgl was still in its infancy and pretty much shit… and it still is…while inferior Javascript garbage infests the web even more. Really was it worth it… nope the benefits of doing it were clearly for the likes of Google (and big media companies etc) while they preach about security and protecting users… from what? organizations that suck up user data and infest the web with javascript and tracking tech? great improvement not… want to make a website or application that works in browser with a rich user interface that isn’t dumbed down garbage and forces developers into having to use shitty javascript frameworks for the frontend and ergh worse backend… and forget making a browser game that isn’t gimped with halfdozen tech limitations.

…nevermind offtopic rant :smile: … back to topic… personally isn’t much unity could remove from the editor …its more like what should they add because is plenty they should add imo (so far they keep adding things I don’t use and I’m fine with that…this is the year they add stuff I do want to use right), seems they just want to split it all up internally to have even more preview versions of things being developed at different rates that aren’t reliant on other parts all being in sync for a release… I think its a nice idea… yet also think it will probably be an on going headache for the end users (as you juggle things to get working with a project and find new bugs with various configuration setups) maybe some unity teams like the idea and will be able get more users actually testing their features if everything is sort of decoupled and they can release it as plugin… but to me 2017 was the year of tech previews for unity with even the actual releases being previews of most things… 2017.1, 2017.2, and 2017.3 all kinda working and not working for weeks on end… and dozen other preview builds that require downloading an entire editor build for specific in development features… so its got potential positives and potential negatives, but they should definitely have the plugin system out and being used by asset devs first personally and maybe a few unity preview features if possible.

I don’t see that happening, but they could do what they did last year with making Textmeshpro available to all users and raising the bar of ugui text quality… Doing something like that with the already existing scripting inspector3 asset, but then they were also supposedly working on visualscripting editor(s) for things. Still I wouldn’t mind seeing a built in improvement to source code viewing/handling that doesn’t require additionally opening another ide for the project… but its also one of those things that doesn’t have a big payoff…a visual payoff like TMP brought where unity games released on the marketplace can all use better looking text instead of bringing the overall quality down of unity made games by those who don’t buy the extra assets to make things not look as ugly. I never realized unity text handling was pretty bad until trying TMP. So it did have the intended benefit.

I’d like to see them making better and more feature rich ugui components like a tables/treeview with all the bells and whistles like column sorting and search filtering… they did sort of with the 5.6 treeview api but its not greatly documentated with examples, rarely seen it used in any sourced projects, is completely useless out of the editor and I never liked how you have to use it, awkward api.

yeah you can’t think of it as dropping certain teams and moving them to other projects, I don’t use cloud build, or advertising features yet, but its not like those teams are all going to have people who would be making the best voxel terrain and editor systems for it. Drop all VR/AR projects and so we can get nested prefabs faster right… or does that setback the release another year? :smile:

Remove the particlefx editor…JK … it seems to be one of the few things in unity that does get new features and improvements at every release… shocking… seeing as alot of other features already in unity sort of get developed and dumped and left for years without much more in improvements or features… just bug fixes at times and maybe the asset store might have some improvements or additional features for things… except not a great ugui datagrid table like system it seems.

Well you could look at SabgreCSG which has been free for a year now (though no updates) or the still updated and developed … [RELEASED] Realtime CSG - level design for Unity

Dunno why it comes to mind…but find LogicalError and offer him bonuses to move him from whatever project he’s already working on at Unity so he can focus on more RealtimeCSG stuff …Maybe then we will get more HL2 clones and eventually one of them will be released and we can think of it as the HL3 game we never got from Valve (starting to think Valve couldn’t even make a decent game anymore)

Anyway improved modelling/mapping tools in Unity has been requested a lot, and it would definitely make it easier for developers to offer modding toolkits to use with their game to make maps and levels where texturing can be done aswel. I can’t help but think that is an inherent problem with the engine not really supporting it better (pipeline made easier for developers to make it possible etc allowing users to use assets from the game with the toolkit), and not just a dlc profit motive of the game developers. Because no developer invested in the longterm success of a game would ignore a community mapping/modding scene that can possibly extend the profits of a game people still buy years later because of the community content.

I’m quite happy that Unity doesn’t always hire an asset store author to “fix” things. That’s a mixed bag because often the asset is built on top of something pretty nasty. It’s sometimes best to have a good clear out from the ground up.

In fact a lot of the assets mentioned by people that they’d love to see built in shock me because they’re not good. Maybe good at marketing.

One of the best moves in the world. Prevented a ton of exploits and hardened security worldwide. Flash died because adobe could not keep it going and Apple refused it entry on iOS.

We use SabreCSG in production. Modified it a bit to keep it relevant to our workflow. Would prefer it built in.

So far a lot of talk about adding but not removing! If I had to remove something it would include (including the obvious!):

  • Depreciated API
  • Boo / JS
  • Bugs
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This is not true, if you do not remove unused code the code base will degenerate to a unmaintainable mess

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As for CSG i found sabre really buggy, I’m currently using “realtime csg” and I’m quite happy with it.
It has some bugs and crashes as well, but it seems the guy working on it has not abandoned it (as is that case with sabre). Also its realtime (not just constantly rebuilding the whole mesh).
I’m having high hopes for it.

As for the whole scaling back stuff: I’m not sure if that would really help Unity. They should create dedicated teams for terrain and some other things, but other than that, they’re working on a lot of stuff at the same time already. Not sure if its really missing resources that are the problem.

What they definitely should work on is communication with the community!
There are a few teams who maintain a really good communication (input, cinemachine, mono scripting upgrade),
but other than those, getting an answer from any other team in unity is a really hard.

It’s voluntary for staff to use forum. If I was Unity staff, I would probably not use forum due to useless moderators etc.

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I dont think thats the only dimension to that stuff - its also a reflection of what path the engine developers already made clear they were taking, and discussions about what is actually happening rather than what some people would like to happen. The lack of BSP love comes from above as well as from some quarters below.

Are you guys referring to CSG or BSP? You don’t need BSP for CSG modelling. Artists and level designers are actually just asking for CSG style modelling as it is quick and iterative.

BSP is a technique for optimisation (looking up a nearby triangle or resolving a collision are some examples), but artists often confuse it with the actual modelling. They don’t have to play together (and haven’t in recent years).

You could represent the shape with binary trees for optimisations for example, but there is no reason they have to be lumped together, and indeed the cross talk is confusing me.

So are people asking for optimisations and more limitations to what they can do, or are they asking for boolean style modelling?

At the last Unity hackweek (back in… May, I think?), I actually experimented with this, in a project we affectionately named “Burn It To The Ground.” The point was to try and strip out things from Unity that we deemed legacy/obsolete, not widely used, or just not up to an acceptable standard of user experience - while still having an end result that would be suitable for, say, 80% of what people use Unity to make today, kinda ‘recapturing’ Unity’s Minimum Viable Product. This saw us delete things like legacy particles, cloth, wheelcollider, the ragdoll wizard… we even did a pass over the Editor UI itself, doing things like cleaning up the controls in the top right corner.

Most of what we did is never going to land into the product - and rightly so, I think - but we did learn a lot of useful lessons (which is kinda the point of hackweek) and there were a few things that might make it in sometime. For example, wouldn’t it be nice if the MeshRenderer component just had a ‘mesh’ property on it, instead of needing a whole separate MeshFilter component?

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It would be nice if Transform and GameObject were collapsed as well. I think you should probably strip out cloth, WheelCollider and everything you mentioned but bring them back under packman + primitive API calls.

How does that not satisfy both worlds?

Not sure what you mean by that last part?
Do you mean that the forum is too unorganized, people asking bad(basic) questions etc, so its not worth it for the unity devs to respond? Or was it a joke?
Why are the moderators useless?

For me personally its all about the boolean style modeling. It is superb for some things. (Not all! Every tool has its application!) You can quickly generate some optimized geometry that would otherwise be a total nightmare to make or at least to change later on.

I think it would be cool if Unity would have a tool for it that offers at least some basic CSG workflow. Something with a very powerful foundation like the realtime algorithm from RealtimeCSG; and extensible by the community, so they can make their own shapes, shape generators, generating geometry for an arbitrary set/list of brushes…

I don’t really see the need for BSP stuff since collisions are almost exclusively handled by the PhysX engine which does a really good job. Isn’t BSP something that was important in the early days (think Quake, CS1.6, …) to save cpu cylces, but nowadays can be discarded? I really have no clue when it comes to BSP systems.

I have no idea what absolute black magic realtime csg uses, maybe its indeed BSP that is enabling that kind of performance? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

That would indeed by nice, but I get the feeling that making that a reality would require a lot of work for not really much gain (a few more pixels of space in the inspector, or am I missing some other improvements that would bring?)

Yes! In fact I wonder why there are even two things, maybe so RectTransform can be a thing?
I distinctly remember deleting the Transform component from a gameobject a long time ago, which caused some really strange and spooky errors until I realized my mistake.