Why NOT rip people off?

News & General Discussion
1

I’m seeing a lot of posts (here and other places around the web and real world) of people complaining about the pricing, licensing and distribution of their games.

“Games cost too much in Australia” (they really do, btw)
“I can only install this on 14 computers”
“I paid for this game, why can’t I sell it as my own?”

Ok, some of that is exaggerated, but you get the idea.

Now, I’m of the mindset of not wanting to insult my players. Of not wanting to squeeze them for every last penny, just because I can. I would like to think that, if I create an amazing game and open it to everyone, equally, I would receive endless praise, everyone would play and love the game, people would buy 15 copies for their unborn grandchildren, and parades would be held in my honor.

I would like to think that, but I would be wrong.

You know what would happen? The handful of people that wouldn’t STILL find something about the price or licensing to complain about, would respond with, “psh, damn right I’m only paying a penny for this game, you corporate bastard” :eyes:

M@therF&c$er, I should knock the taste out of your mouth.

So in the end, it typically comes down to, if you trust people to support you because you’re benevolent, you will be sorely disappointed… every time.

This, tragically, leads to the jaded and cynical response that is common in the industry of “F**k you, pay me.” And that goes for everyone! Developers, publishers, players, indies, AAA studios, freelancers, etc, etc.

Now personally, I don’t complain. When I can afford it, I’ll grab a game that catches my eye. I don’t run 18 machines, nor do I swap out hardware every 3 months, so I don’t give a crap how many machines I’m “allowed” to install it on. If I can’t afford it, I don’t play it (which is a shame with the endless variety out there). And when I lose interest, I don’t auction it off to recoup my cost. It gathers dust (literal or metaphorical).

But I do understand where people are coming from. My point is, where are you people when developers DO give you something for free? Or the DO open up their licensing. Sure, you’re the first in line, but no one hears a peep out of you, and this act of kindness is washed away and forgotten.

Unity is a prime example of this! People actually complaining about the $1500 price tag? Are you kidding me? Not only is that dirt cheap for a game engine of this quality, but they released the damn thing for FREE. Not because they had to, but because they wanted you to get in and try it out. No licensing fees, no royalties. Just make a game and enjoy.

In conclusion, if you want developers and publishers to actually be generous and open with you, support them! Don’t be a selfish, entitled a$$hat. Thank them!

2

Amen, preach on! But seriously, people will always find something to complain about, it’s human nature.

3

You got a seriously valid point, Khan. But one extreme behaviour should not create another extreme reaction.
Anyway isn’t it what has been recently called “the Entitled generation” ?

4

Sad, but true.

And if subtle actions can incite extreme reactions, then why not respond to those with overreaction? Besides, I’m an opinionated cynic :wink:

5

Yup, agree with all of the above. Just look at the iOS app store. People will give one star reviews for a game that cost them $0.99 because it only kept them entertained for 2 hours. Seriously, a few hours of entertainment for LESS than a dollar? And you’re NOT happy? Honestly, I don’t know if we can change this, though. The majority of people will probably always be like this. But that doesn’t mean we have to be like them. I don’t know what the solution to this is(if there is one at all), but ripping people off certainly isn’t it. :smile:

6

That’ll probably just create an exponentially larger overraction on the consumer’s side of things. We’ll end up with an infinite grudge war that nobody benefits from. Until of course, you run out of money.

7

My plan is to not aim for mass market.

My games are intended for a specific, more refined demographic, and I have no intention of changing my games to cater to the loudmouths who don’t like it. I don’t need 10 million players to sustain my games. My stance is, as long as I’m making enough money to continue creating games, then the players who don’t like it can go somewhere else.

A prime example of that is Star Wars Galaxies. Great game! But the general public whined so much, they made drastic changes to make them happy. This broke what should have been a timeless game and eventually killed the whole community.

If they had just told those players, “fine, leave”, then SWG would still be alive today. Sure, not making as much money as other MMOs, but that’s still more than $0.

8

I agree completely. However, although this is a good plan for independent developers, it may not work so well for larger developers, due to good old corporate greed. The developers of Star Wars Galaxies were probably being constantly being pressured by their publisher/shareholders to be more profitable. I don’t think they could have gotten away with saying “fine, leave” and not changing the game.

Of course, changing the game was a terrible idea, but most big companies don’t think like this. They just see the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and trample everything in their attempts to get it.

9

Yes, that is the curse of big business. Their costs grow to the point that they have no choice but to appeal to the mass market. As we’ve been seeing a lot lately, this leads to large developers making one small slip up and quickly crumbling under their own weight.

10

Then if you followed the SWG fiasco, I know this will strike a chord :

This quote is for me the perfect summary of what slowly killed (a big part of) the videogame industry over last decade.
The latest illustration of this mentality is Gears of Space … er … Dead Space 3.

(damn I’m offtopic-ing again…)

11

…I can’t even believe someone would say that out loud. I mean, sure, we all suspect the big corporations think that way… but to admit it? That’s just a slap in the face!

“Yeah, we know people don’t actually want emotional investment or immersion. Let’s just have em click more.”

12

Actually this quote was said right before the (in)famous NGE from Star Wars Galaxies. The one that destroyed the game.

13

Problem is the economy stinks. So now the younger people working flipping burgers are stealing parents credit cards and wanting more for their $1, sadly the same situation goes for the developer not being able to make that extra for your $1. So it just goes full circle and as we know circles have no end.

14

I don’t think it’s that much about the 1 dollar. People compare products of similiar price. If one game for 1 dollar is awesome and another by comparison is crap it will be rated low. The gamemakers put themselves in the situation by dumping prices, no need to blame the gamers. They just respond to the situation they are in. If a chocalate bar cost 50 dollars and a bottle of champange was 1 dollar we would value those products very differently aswell.

15

You noob, you tried to close the element without even opening it! L2program!
Lol, obviously just kidding.

I agree with you, i’m a poor student and i would have to put all my money i own to buy Unity Pro, but still i understand why Unity Pro exist, and i do like it the way it is, and i love how it’s a one time payment, absoultely no royalties (I might be wrong?).

The Unity team has very generous licensing compared to most other engines that i know of. + It’s easy to use and even the indie version has alot of high quality features. I’m not complaining at all.

16

But what most fail to realize having an out of the box all features handed to you engine with royalties is not that bad. Pay 1500 one time sure, but what if you never get 1500 laying around. As we know the free version is not even comparable to Pro, not to many if any I can think of even sell good or sell at all using free version. So going that route may not even get you 1500 saved up.

Say I get this beast engine with all the bells and whistles they want a royalty after I make my first 50k, well I make a beastly looking game for free or with some freelancing and my game sells for 50k a month because of how nice it looks. or what if it flops and make under 50k and never anymore, I lose nothing.

Buy Unity Pro for 1500 and maybe you never make a dime back? In this economy 1500 is a lot.

Plus another thing if you are making over 50k from your game you will sooner or later be able to get a buy out license and then they take no more royalties. Them giving you everything all from the start for like no money helped make this possible with like no risk.

Also another thing yet again to look at, yes 1500 is good but that price stood when the economy was not as bad, well it is far worse now and the price did not go down? !500 is not that cheap when you realize most great games require a team and that means everyone in the team that uses the engine will require Pro as well, this can cause many teams to break apart after years of working together or w/e the situation because maybe one of the guys does not have the spare funds. On top of that somewhere down the road you will also be using freelancers and or bought packages to get going. So the 1500 you dropped looks less and less cheap to an Indie company with no guarantee of success.

1500 to get all the features, all teammates have to buy it as well if you are to work together and have no guarantees

or…

Get all features free or for chunk change, pay only royalties if your game takes off, but get to start out with all the goodies to help get you that far with no expenses to yourself or team. If your game does take off simply save up a bit of that profit and do a buy out, usually by becoming a licensee or getting a source license.

Just something to look at, do not write off royalty engines, think of the entire scenario from all stand points, It is not that bad if you lay it out like this.

17

Oh no, not this again. You seriously think having the pro version will magically allow you to sell a good game? Dude, the engine has nothing to do with selling a game. First, you have to have a good idea(not what YOU think is a good idea, what everyone ELSE things is a good idea). Then you have to implement it well in your game. Then you actually have to FINISH cough your game. Then you have to create a hype/buzz around it. Then you have to actually market it well, and possibly get it distributors like steam. THEN you will make money. Not before then. Not having dynamic shadows and some fancy lighting effects has nothing to do with your inability to make money from games.

The reason you can’t think of many people who use the free version and are successful is because people who can’t afford $1500 in game development costs generally have little skill at game development/marketing. No offense intended, as this umbrella also encompasses me. Anway, point is, if you’re an experienced enough developer to make games that sell well, you probably have more than $1500 sitting around. If you’re so poor that you can’t afford $1500, then you probably don’t have the skills to be successful. However, that’s no reason to stop polishing your skills with the free version, until eventually you become skilled enough(and rich enough) for the pro version.

If you go generally searching on the internet, most professional people will say they spent around $100,000 or more to get iOS apps developed (all costs included). Apparently you don’t have that much money, so you try to do everything yourself, like most other indies. You can’t afford Unity pro, so what? Work around it. Find a way to make a game without the Pro version. You can’t afford other expenses such as professional level design either, and I’d say those are much more important to your game than what Pro has to offer. Not saying Pro isn’t good, just saying that Free is a completely viable alternative.

Last note, just a reminder of what Khanstruct said earlier about all this…

18

Yes, very true. But i’m more of a hobby game developer, i work with a friend that does the art (outside of unity) and another friend also agreed to help me with the sound art when needed. So to me it sounds like a good deal, atleast RIGHT NOW.

I’ll admit i didn’t really put alot of brains into posting that comment, from a bussiness viewpoint it would be good to go with a royalty licensed engine, atleast if you’re a bigger team.
But isn’t it possible to develop pretty much the entire game in Unity Indie and then when it’s basically finished make one of the team members buy Unity Pro and have him finish/polish/add Pro features? Or even using the 30 day test period? I understand this is a rather cheap approach but i guess it would be viable for a bigger/first major project?

I guess you are talking about UDK, i’ve heard they have you pay royalties after 50k. I’ve been thinking about trying that engine out too, it looks like a good alternative to Unity, and i would def. use that engine if i wanted to do a big project, unless the team i’m teaming (if) up with already happen to have Unity Pro…and if i had it, ofcourse.

19

A couple of things. First of all, Unity doesn’t allow one team member to just buy Pro, for that very reason. If one member has pro, all members must have Pro. It’s a legal requirement.

On the other hand, it is entirely possible to develop a whole game in Unity Free. Most of the Pro features are way over-hyped unless you’re like an AAA studio. They’re not necessary, especially if this is your first project. You’ll usually find that once you start, half the things you planned on implementing are impossible for you at your current level.

As for UDK, the exact pros and cons of each engine have been discussed a thousand times, but it is generally agreed upon that Unity is the easier engine to use, at least for new developers. If you’re new to the whole gamedev thing, you should probably stick with Unity. As for which engine is more powerful, that is debatable, but let’s not get into that here :smile:

20

So you are saying just because someone does not have 1500 bucks laying around they have little to no skill or knowledge? How about bills, personals, and other financial situations drain that funding. or even possibly most jobs out there are minimum wage at best and you cannot save up 1500 making that kind of money. Also if you are great and skilled finding freelancing as extra income still may not be enough.

I also never said pro makes games magically done and successful, but compared to free you have way better chance. On top of that like I said 1500 and being a beast developer still does not give any guarantees.

1500 = high risk/high reward

Royalties = no risk/med reward (until you get a buy out)

I cannot stress this part enough.

1500 is not much to a person making 4k a month, that’s pretty solid money

1500 is however a ton to someone making 300-700 a month

UDK was my prime example on royalty based because it was another solid engine out there, I do not personally use it but know many who do so this is not even a bias opinion, just stating the raw truth to both low costs one time, and royalty based.