Creating MMORPG’s seems to be a big deal to kids/early teens on these boards - I think part of the reason is probably due to the fact that community and relationships are so crucial at that stage of life. Maybe the reason there are so many want-to-make-a-MMORPG threads/posts is due to a deeper yearning to recreate a mechanism and world by which interactions, rules and social groupings are easier than in real life - united over a similar goal, and as an avenue for escapism or relief from the complex rules of relationships in the real world.
The emotional reward from creating even a bit of such a world more than outweighs the long term hard work connotations associated with taking creativity past enjoyment and into the hard toil, and besides, at that age the human brain isn’t really matured to the point that the negative aspects or implausibilities to a two person team building a functioning MMORPG have been factored in. So try as we might to dissuade them by the cold hard facts - it doesn’t always register.
Next time you see a MMORPG newbie post - try to think beyond mere annoyance or along the lines of “it-can’t-be-done-young apprentice”, and try to offer feedback based on the reality of game creation but also tempered with a little grace and mentorship.
I know it can be hard at times, but the moment Unity Indie became free, the doors were opened for one and all alike and the doors of the forums also seemed to swing wide with kids running in wanting to play with everything and make everything possible.
Keeping it real but also letting these kids get lost in make-believe world and allowing them the room to fail as well as succeed is a part of the responsibility it seems we members of the community moderators should take in our stride and help to foster an awesome place to learn and develop - and not just games.
:razz:
Agreed.
As much as I’d like to think it was something as interesting as this, I think the reality is much simpler.
They play games like World of Warcraft and perhaps hear about the money Blizzard makes, and want a World of Warcraft of their own. Whether that be because they want the power and control of thousands of players, they think they can make worlds of money, or maybe something much more innocent. Perhaps they think they have a fantastic idea (and maybe they do) for their own world, and want it to exist.
I completely agree with the second half of your post though.
I completely disagree in almost everything you’ve said.
I don’t really have the time to say why though…
I don’t think there is this really complex, deeply psychological, “I must escape my life bc it’s hard being a teenager!” mentality among those wanting to make an MMORPG. To be honest, teenagers don’t think that far ahead. Nor do they feel that far ahead. They feel about 100x as much as a normal person does, but only for 0.001% of the time. One day they want to escape, while the next they want to dive in extremely deep. It’s got nothing to do with MMORPG’s and escapism.
It’s about how amazing MMORPG’s are. Making friends is fun, meeting people is exciting, and playing with others is the coolest thing ever for people without anti-social feelings (and even for those WITH those feelings!) People want to make MMORPG’s because MMORPG’s are fun and awesome. That’s as far as their minds go, and as far as reality is.
In other words: “Dude… because it’s AWESOME!!! Duh!!!”
Perhaps it is because I have been stubborn my entire life and was born of a stubborn family… but people trying to “dissuade me” by “cold hard facts” has always made me laugh throughout my life, from childhood until adulthood. Still to this day it makes me laugh, and often “cold hard facts” are from people who often don’t know what they are actually talking about. You have no idea how many times I’ve been lectured with “cold hard facts” about creating video game graphics from people who don’t even know what 3D Models are. There are so many psuedo-experienced people on the internet who make rash assumptions based on lack of experience, listening to any “cold hard facts” often SHOULD be ignored.
Also, I do not understand how it is “implausible” to develop a video game with only two people any more than it is implausible to develop a video game at all. I have been told by the majority in this forum that it can be done with only one person-- so a team of two would be even more plausible!
Of course, what do I know? I’ve just been told “That’s impossible!” and “You can’t do it!” my entire life, being laughed at a few months before I succeed. And I don’t really know much about human psychology, since it is just my field of study as a VERY soon-to-be professional, and I’ve just been told I’m pretty good at it by most people 
I’ve never designed a video game before… but I believe I can. And if I can do it at 25 years old…why can’t a 14 year old who is also a genius? Not to say they will make a GOOD game, but they CAN make a game people like.
I don’t think this “being nice to them” is needed though. People need to learn that there will ALWAYS be people who tell you “You can’t do it!” or “That is impossible! LOL!” or online idiots squaking “LOL, AN MMO? GET REAL KID LOLOLOL!!!111”
Hell, even Richard Garriott and Brad McQuaid (famous MMO developers) both get THOUSANDS of people mocking them, saying they’re idiots, telling them they’re wrong, and saying “Your game failed. LOL!!!”
Of course… the latter is actually true. Both of their games failed 
LOL. I would probably be one of those people mocking them, calling them idiots- even when I know NOTHING about them or their game design.
And also… people need to learn what they can and cannot do. They need to be told “You can’t do it. You know how COMPLEX an MMO is? hahahahahah! Loser!” because the people who are most likely going to accomplish the feat are those who are able to overcome the inevitable criticism.
And…not everyone has the skills to be good at it. In fact, I’d say that most people suck. Even in the industry, my opinion is that they suck. Look at how amazing Blizzard is at making video games than other game companies. Every title they release becomes a blockbuster hit.
Now look at all the titles which fail, not even as a business, but as a fun, quality video game. There are talented teenagers, such like there are talented adults.
But I do agree that we should encourage all of them, and treat them with respect! Good post, I don’t disagree with you posting this. Thanks! 
Okay, I am actually probably wrong about not needing the “be nice” part. Teenagers are quite fragile, especially with their self-esteem and confidence. They do not have the confidence that some adults have-- so they are not as able to handle the criticism and being told “That’s impossible you idiot, you will fail!” is very bad for them.
Afterall… what if a VERY talented teenager wants to make a MMO, and can because of their talent-- but are told enough criticism that they decide to not even attempt it, because their confidence isn’t set in stone.
I applaud this post. I just had to disagree because I am a jerk…lol…
Hmm,
I don’t think young people (from young children to young adults) are dumb, stupid or silly (in most cases). MMORPG has a great appeal, as far as game development goes it has everything to offer young people, from fun gameplay, ultimate boasting rights, to unholy riches. That’s not reality… like all genres and technologies, not everything is fun, and like any other type of game, riches are not always at the end of that rainbow. Anyone who finished 2-5 yrs of development both a) deserves to brag and b) knows the difference
In my experience, both when I was young and observing youth now, there are two main contributors to the endless supply of new people who “will make the next MMO”: (same applies to almost any “I know better” youth projects)
-
unfounded confidence - It’s a side effect of teen years (pre-during-and post). It’s natural. Simple successes, success in unrelated areas, or just “great ideas” seem to be all it takes to invoke a passion born of the muses and gaming gods themselves. This sensation is highly resistant to criticism (unless delivered by a person of opposite gender… roughly within the same age range). Young men generally suffer more profoundly than young women…
-
The amazing ability to identify all the problems, opportunities, challenges and solutions… and yet only ever be able to think them through one at a time. Oh, you can afford a game engine, and you can afford a server side MMO product, and you can afford Maya (student ed)… but you can’t afford any two of the above. Oh, you’ll be able to live on $150 per week until you’re rich (no doubt just around the corner), if you budget all your money, against each bill separately
It seems nearly impossible for a young person to look at undoable combinations of problems and just call them undoable. Not that MMOs are undoable… but to make an MMO by yourself is to know the answer to a simple question, “how do you boil the ocean?”
challenge 2 is compounded by challenge 1
Just my thoughts,
Cheers,
Galen
Get BergZergArcade to boil it for me… 
you’ll understand if you’ve seen his tuts.
And in time, you’ll understand the irony of your response
No I agree, those tutorials look amazing!
LoL,
So what you’re saying is… only a mad scientist can boil the ocean.
Agreed.
MUAHAHAHAHAHA…HAHAHAHA…HUAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
:razz:
:roll:
why is there so many topics against MMO development?
And also why do teenagers get “slagged off” so much on this community?
I am only 15, yet I am hard working, I know my limitations and I strive to develop games as good as I possibly can. I understand there are some people who just come over to the forum with no knowledge other than what a MMO should look like in their opinion coughWoWcough but we should at least give them a chance.
Maybe we should just give one or two MMO topics a chance
or develop a open source MMO starter kit for peoples?
Maybe a new tutorial from UT??
Mike
mikesgames - there are so many topics against MMO development because so many people are announcing MMO’s. (and wanting to be showered in praise. And given help. And recruit a team that they can be boss of. Loop this forever and you can probably see why this is a little tiring for some people)
The crucial point is saying kids and small teams can’t make MMO’s is not the same as saying that kids and small teams can’t make games. An MMO is a difficult and complicated type of game, and anyone who attempts to start with one is demonstrating that they have no experience developing software and have given no serious thought to the task ahead of them.
It’s actually quite rude, especially when they come seeking attention from game developers, many of which know exactly what they’re talking about and are confused when their sensible and well intentioned advice and observations are met by furious rebuttal from desperate dreamers.
Imagine if every second thread of a car modding forum was “Can I attach rocket boosters to my car to make it fly?” “For the last time no, it won’t work.” followed by people decrying the response as “negative” and urging the OP to follow their dreams.
No offense to teenagers, but I don’t think they are the only ones being “slagged off” in forums.
Have you ever been to MMORPG.com to discuss an MMO design concept? Not only are the trolls there 100x as ugly, even the moderators will troll you (and try their hardest to ban you) if they don’t like your design concept.
I would post there all the time in a very intelligent, professional way-- only to be met by some of the most barbaric, negative people ever (who match the ugliness and stupidity of DIGG or YAHOO comments). And moderators who would bury my threads, even when I didn’t violate the rules-- to the point of harassment where I had to contact the CEO of mmorpg.com who apologized to me and took my latest thread (which the moderator moved to a dead forum to kill it) and moved it to the Pub forum at the top as a thread “In the Spotlight”.
Four months later, that same moderator and employee (two people) harassed me again, and this will be the second time I contact Craig.
People treat others- regardless of age or profession- with contempt, because they are jerks. Especially when the person dreams or produces something they love. For some reason, that pisses people off a lot
Because they’re trying to fly before they can crawl?
Not even Unity can build you a complete datacentre, stuffed with racks of servers, to handle the “Massive” part of a viable “MMORPG”.
That’s not to say this will always be the case: graphic designers howled when DTP suddenly made insults to good design easy to create! Desktop Video has also reached the point where even a mobile phone can be used to shoot a movie on.
Unity is awesome, but not even it can help you purchase, install and run the back-end server infrastructure you’d need to create a genuinely Massively Multiplayer game.
Yet.
The rise of SaaS and public cloud systems like Amazon’s “S3” service could well be enough to support a fully scaleable, cloud-based multiplayer game service that helps to bring the “Massive” to every developer. The moment Unity Technologies release their “MMO Cloud” service, it will be viable even for a typically-penniless teenager to create an MMORPG with just a few friends and a lot of time on their hands.
It’s not really an age thing specifically. As people get older, time appears to fly by faster. This alone tends to make you cranky. However, there’s nothing more irritating than reading a post from someone who clearly can’t even be bothered to do his (or her) own research first. If someone has clearly put some effort into their grand plans, I’ll take them more seriously. I tend not to reply at all rather than flame, though.
I don’t care how old a poster is—it’s not usually advertised, although the poster’s use of language is often a giveaway. Your writing is a refreshing exception: it points and laughs at the vast number of your peers who seem to think ‘text-speak’ is a good choice of writing style for a forum.
(I’m a writer now; my gamedev days began in the era of “You are the letter ‘A’. Move it around the screen and avoid the evil asterisks!” You young whippersnappers don’t know how lucky you are to have recognisable avatars, let alone 3D!)
As I, and others, have pointed out: you cannot (yet) do the first ‘M’ in ‘MMORPG’, unless you have a lot of money! This has nothing to do with your talent and skills. (See above.)
Again, this will change in time, but “Desktop Scaleable Network Infrastructure” technology isn’t available for consumers today, let alone teenagers with paper rounds.
On the bright side, such technology is now available to commercial ventures, so it’s really only a matter of time before “Unity SNI” comes out.
Actually from what I’ve heard, scaleable server infrastructure is entirely possible since it is 2011
But besides that point, I see you as agreeing that it is entirely possibly, because every MMORPG begins as a ORPG and develops into a MORPG before it ever hits the shelves as a MMORPG.
ESPECIALLY if it is indie developed.
If you want to fly, all you have to do is learn to crawl…then stumble…then walk…then run…then sprite…then build a motorized vehicle or mechanical wings… then learn to control said mechanics.
LoL! It makes sense though what you said.
People on this forum respect those who have already put a lot of thought and planning into their MMORPG or MORPG goal. I find that people here are actually quite nice to me because I show a lot of forethought into the creation of my game, and even have planned it in stages, from beginning as a small tower defense game, to forming into a 1 zone multiplayer rpg, to becoming a orpg, then a morpg, and finally a mmorpg.
Of course, that is to say people like it. At any point if it fails to gain popularity (and especially funding for the last M) then it stops where it is. Of course it will definitely be multiplayer-- but whether it is multiplayer 4 players or 4 million players is entirely up to the world. I am happy with just 4.
If rocket boosters can make a Space Shuttle fly, I see no reason why it wouldn’t work with a Car.
Eventually someone WILL follow this dream, and create flying cars like we see in the Fifth Element or Star Wars.
Flying cars look cool in movies, but there’s a rather large elephant in the room that everyone ignores: who the hell is going to insure them?
Humans already suck at driving in two dimensions. Do you really want to see cars crashing into apartments, or plummeting through roofs? And let’s not mention extremists, who’d be more than willing to crash on purpose.
What’s holding back the flying car is the notion that humans expect to fly them themselves. Not gonna happen.
easy solution that might cut down on all the “i want to make an MMORPG” threads…
make a serious thread about what goes into making one and outlining just what’s going to be needed and make it sticky… right up at the top. even have links to tutorials and examples that hte person will need to learn and know for it to happen (things like links to the server pages on how to integrate multiplayer on that scale, script tutorials on various control schemes, that kinda thing.)
if it’s a serious enough thread and it’s got enough information in it, i can see it cutting down on all those kinds of threads where people ask about it.
though, i think one thing that would need to be done is saying “theme is less important than proper control/ai/networking” because no matter how polished a theme is and no matter how awesome the graphics, if it’s a chore to even get your player to move, it’s not going to even come close to being a successful MMO.
good idea. i want to start a tutorial series on makimg games. i will try to document it.
That better not include the personal jetpacks too!