Unity Heads - Caveats of license changes..need clarity(title changed to prove it's a serious thread)

News & General Discussion
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Let me first say that the approach of the licensing model in general is very-generous(personal/pro), A HUGE THANK YOU IS DESERVED as a large segment of people gained heavily from that decision. THANK YOU.
but..
I find it difficult to believe that a board would have voted to enforce a license structure that has caveats that literally cripples the careers of those who pay for the product and thus, support development !?
..in essence, anyone who pre-ordered Unity 5 never had the chance to make a decision on which license-tier they would ‘exist’(if they met requirements of personal, yet could afford pro). Let me explain, here’s an example..

Example:
DeveloperA buys Unity Pro. Now DeveloperA can not be hired by StudioB as StudioB uses the Personal editions due to not meeting the 100K clause yet.
→ Hence, DeveloperA can not earn that $3k check for programming a game-specific-logic system for StudioB even though DeveloperA meets the requirements for the personal license.
DeveloperA starves while being upset that the company he supports is disallowing him to earn good money, legally(well, should be legally).

  • I’d like to continue on with more, but I don’t want to cloud the point. That point being that those who are supporting Unity are having their careers crippled (potentially for all pro licensees, definitely for most pro licensees).

I do not see the team or board voting to support such illogical logic. Hence I honestly and ‘un-offensively’ wonder if the EA seat is overruling the base notions that have built this company brick by brick possibly because he’s never been in the INDIE LOOP nor never had to be in the INDIE LOOP. Hence, maybe doesn’t understand the life of an INDIE ?
I don’t intend to offend anyone here, but this feels that way to me…let alone the branches of the community that just fell off of the great Oaks’(Unitys’) trunk…aka: the for-hire developers that have pro licenses.

The community has been segmented, intentionally or un-intentioanlly..it has happened. Until things are clarified and explained, we won’t understand the full extent.
I have a disclaimer like section to keep this post on topic, and then I offer a potential resolve to the concerns mentioned.

I would appreciate it if anyone that replies here keeps their reply intelligent, focused and brief.
*No insults. *No nonsense.
This is a VERY VERY serious concern of MANY people. This needs to be addressed in the most professional manner as possible as so a this spark of a chat may ignite into meaningful-discussion.
Please stay on topic, focus on the concern. Thank You.

In regards to a potential Resolve..

  • Is the current workaround to install Unity Personal to a secondary system or to a secondary partition(so long as the user or entity meets the requirements of the personal license) ?
    → While I do view this as a drastic workaround..since my master dev system partitions take 4+ days to complete a setup and configure properly. However, it is a resolve to consider IF it is not illegal to do since the licensing can be interpreted that UNITY can “control us and our systems by way of deciding we’re only allowed to use 1 version of The Unity license structure(2 choices of course) even if meeting both sets of license requirements”.
    Honestly, this is a bit mind-boggling. People need to work, people need to eat. The UNity community was just heavily segmented..and now the best for-hire developers are out of reach for the smaller teams who are trying to become the next big studio.
  • People are concerned that there is no way to have their own project in Pro, while being able to earn money working with a team that uses Personal and of course, the vice-versa.
    ..and of course no one wants to be “black listed” and so there they sit with their pro license segmented from personal user teams, petrified that their license has crippled their career. ..add in the fact that they pre-ordered the Pro license which removed their ability to decide which segment of the community to exist within.. and it gets messier and more humanly-emotional.

This is all highly illogical and I am extremely surprised this passed by a board of Unity Heads of Staffs.

In approach to a proper resolve..in a moment, but first..

  • I would approach the factor of artists, a pro license programmer now has a much smaller pool of artists to choose from. Unitys’ decision ALSO just crippled any 3rd party model sales and sites that sell “ready to use” packages of models. Even the asset store will now be segmented. How will that work ? (rhetorical)

Now ANYONE must sell source models and the lonely programmer teams must have enough art knowledge to setup and export the models for use in the engine…etc etc..I feel the point is made..

- How will the Asset Store work since there will now be 2 tiers of assets that are needed to compete an product availability ? ..and since there will be 2 tiers that are split by a licencing caveat, neither store will ever have the same product !! That is scary to me and several others..if not all users.
→ Will there be a pro store and a personal store ? Yikes, segmenting a userbase like that will hurt the people who have intentionally come to Unity to earn through the asset store. This just feels messy to me,even my writing at this moment feels messy as the topic is that messy .. anyhow; ..disallowing users to interact on engine level even if requirements are met. ::sad indeed::

1 store with 2 tiers, or 2 stores where 1 for each tier, where no one person or entity can EVER have a product in both stores…well, THAT IS truly odd, and again: * crippling to careers/incomes.*

* If Unity would like more examples of the caveats
of these license changes, simply ask. I have more.

Again, please keep this thread on topic, and on professional focus for the concerns mentioned or other potential caveats, I suppose. Thank You.

// I wrote this as a draft, expect imperfection but please take the notions and concerns as valid attempts at legitimate communication. AKA: don’t discredit the post due to a spelling issue or grammar, child like posts are unnecessary at this time, thank you.

Thank You for reading. I appreciate your time.
And again, thank you for the very generous Personal License tier.

//Edit in:
If what I have written here is off basis and are not valid concerns, please explain why and please give a link to what proves your point. Thank You.
I can’t convince fellow developers of something without serious proof..and some teams NEED a sign of how this works.. is their career crippled, will teams fail and break apart ? ..I need facts and word directly form Unity..I think we ALL need facts and word directly from Unity. Yes ?

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See my 2nd post. This one was unclear.

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I have that kind of problem now. I’ve had Pro versions since 3.x and also pre-ordered 5 with mobile addons. Now the people who I have worked with in one project or few others I was going to work with in future projects will do a refund or will not purchase the new version cause of the generous changes. This means I can no longer work with any them or start a new project with the others as we worked kinda like as a team and it was not small contract like job.

I’m under 100k so I could ask a refund too and it almost feels I’m forced to even if I would like to continue with Pro. The splash screen does not bother me that much if it gets changed to more neutral and the dark skin theme was never something I cared about. So what else would I lose? half of the given Pro services are something you can get from elsewhere for free or they are not needed by me. Only things I like is the huge time saver Cloud build and then the asset store Level 11 but then again I don’t even get Cloud build fully with Pro as it’s only for 12 months… and the Level 11 will have subscription chance for everyone.

So what can I do?

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Zuntatos, I understand and agree somewhat.
Those statements(same statement) are found to be quite ambiguous(by a few people I have chatted with) as to the full extent of the notions they attempt to cover.

  • Like saying you can’t paint a car red in any way or form, yet if you paint it purple which contains red, is that not red in some way or form ?
    We simlpy need some rock solid confirmations on this stuff to make things, comfortable and not “tip-toe’esque”.

As for your P.S. section, this is one of the two bigger points.

@Oswind, hopefully we can sort this out and clarify that the community was not to be segmented in such ill-intended fashion.

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Alright, a second, better attempt:

license agreement:

  • if you are accepting the terms on behalf of a Legal Entity which is a Commercial Entity, both (a) its annual gross revenues do not exceed US$100,000, or (b) raised funds (including but not limited to crowdfunding) do not exceed US$100,000, in each case during the most recently completed fiscal year and in any equivalent currency;
  • if you are accepting the terms on behalf of a Legal Entity which is a Non-Commercial Entity, the total annual budget does not exceed US$100,000 (for the entire Non-Commercial Entity (not just a department)) for the most recently completed fiscal year (including in any equivalent currency); and
  • if you are an individual (not acting within a role in a Legal Entity) or if you are accepting the term on behalf of a Legal Entity as a Sole Proprietor, the annual gross revenues from your or its use of the Software do not exceed of US$100,000 during the most recently completed fiscal year (including in any equivalent currency), which does not include any income made which is not related to its use of the Software.

Implies that you can use Unity Personal irrelevant of owning Unity Pro as long as either of these points is true:

  • You work for an Entity that earned less than 100k last year
  • You do not work for a Entity and you personally have earned less than 100k from using Unity Pro or Unity Personal last year

Where Entity basically includes ‘everything’ except for developing alone (See section 15 of the license agreement).

‘You’ in the license agreement refers to the Entity that you work for or yourself if there is no such Entity. (Says so somewhere at the start)

license agreement:
You may not combine or integrate Licensee Content that you develop with Unity Personal simultaneously with any Licensee Content that you develop with Unity Pro or any Unity Pro Add-On Products. Licensee Content developed with Unity Personal will be tagged with an identifier that is used to enforce this restriction.

Just one thing to say about this. Read this, from the license agreement, section 2.1:, specifically the bold part.

license agreement:
Unity Personal Restrictions. You acknowledge and agree that as an express condition to the license rights granted under Section 1, you are not permitted to combine or integrate in any manner any Licensee Content developed with Unity Personal with any Licensee Content developed simultaneously with Unity Pro. For the avoidance of doubt: (a) if you are a permitted user of Unity Personal, you may commence a project using only Unity Personal and subsequently upgrade all (but not less than all) of your licenses to Unity Pro and the applicable Unity Pro Add-On Products, and (b) any user of the Software may use content licensed from third parties regardless of the version of the Software that was used to develop such third party content. You acknowledge and agree that Unity may tag Licensee Content created with Unity Personal with an identifier to prevent such a prohibited combination of Licensee Content.

So final points:

  • Getting hired by that StudioB is no issue at all, as owning Pro does not mean you can’t use Personal, just not on the same project, and StudioB can use Unity Personal (and therefore, you can, as employee)
  • Using Unity Personal while owning unity pro is no issue as well, since owning Unity Pro is mentioned nowhere in the Unity Personal restrictions. Just don’t mix the content created with them.
  • Buying/downloading third party content is allowed irrelevant of the version used to develop it.

Working this out got rid of some of my worries, yey.

Were there any issues I missed?

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So in my case that would mean I would have my Pro edition installed on my win/mac computers and only use them with my own projects or with other Pro users. For Personal edition I would have 3rd computer and install and use it to work with the guys that only use the Personal edition (I know I can switch between personal and pro on one computer with the license file but thats risky).

Like @profuzzy said the EULA has been confusing in past and in forums, can we get an official confirmation of the above so I can quote it when the swat team kicks the door in after they have been sent to my office cause regular pro/personal edition usage has been detected from same ip-address? :wink:

@ or @Graham-Dunnett ?

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I’m not sure how to interpret the license, even given the above. I’m not a lawyer. However as a Pro user who would like to be able to collaborate with non-Pro users I would really like for Unity to spell this out clearly for us to understand.

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Zuntatos, you’re on the right track but you’re also proving 1 HUGE thing, which is the #1 issue at hand, you’re using your own interpreted inference of the words(in places). I’m talking about rock-solid legal-ese. We want it in black and white what can and can not be done and to the FULL extent for which a company should extend to the client base.

Example; you quoted:
“b) any user of the Software may use content licensed from third parties regardless of the version of the Software that was used to develop such third party content. You acknowledge and agree that Unity may tag Licensee Content created with Unity Personal with an identifier to prevent such a prohibited combination of Licensee Content.”

// I removed this paragraph as it seems to me that their license sections rectify but never ratify
// one another as/before other sections appear to contradict previously set notions. It’s rather grey.

I would REALLY just like to wait for Unity to chime in guys…
More speculation will simply make this too hefty a situation for them to file through and possibly would spread misinformation.
AKA: posting what you believe to be facts might cause others to think you have it sorted out…while you may mean well and have 100%the greatest intentions, it could cause issues. I hope that doesn’t sound harsh…just trying to help us all here.

//sorry for editing that several times so quick like

//edit in:
Ostwind wrote…

:wink: …a bit drastic but the ramifications of similarities to such are possible.

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Well, I think this is all scare-mongering, if I am honest. (I’ve spent all week helping with dark-skin, student, personal edition issues, and tbh am a bit grumpy today. ;-))

So, user A has Pro license and is a Unity expert. Company B is tiny, and doesn’t make $100k/year, so can use Personal edition. Company B wants to hire A. Since A has a Pro license, and the company only has Personal and because Pro and Personal cannot work together, A’s Pro license reverts into Personal. B ship a product that has the splash screen.

What’s the exact problem?

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Thanks for the clarification. Can you please point out the specific language that states that A’s Pro license “reverts” into Personal, since I didn’t see anything like that anywhere? Not that I don’t believe you! But I’d like to know what it is I missed.

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If you work on multiple projects and don’t want to revert your main Unity all the time by renaming/deleting the license file or other way, are you allowed to have personal edition installed on other (3rd) computer? with the license tricks its possible you might open a project with wrong edition activated. Whats the approved way for A to work with B and maybe with C and D too? (B is Personal and C, D Pro or the other way around)

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this is NOT scare mongering, these are legitimate questions. Why would I be here to scare anyone ? The EULA is not clear. You must be grumpy. Let’s wait until you’re no longer grumpy today, but please sotp back as there are valid concerns.

the exact problems were written above, (I assume you’re ignoring them due to assuming I am a spammer). Well, I am not a spammer. I am not a fear maker, or scarer or whatever, I am an end user with serious questions that concern a team I am on and some friends and in fact the future decision if I use Unity pro as well. So, please take this VERY seriously. Thank YOu

ok, so this so far…
So there is 1. license reverting. But won’t Your systems eventually BARK/ALERT you to too many activations of a pro license even tho it’s on the same system !? What if Dev A has his own projects in Pro and DevStudioB’s is personal licesning … and Dev studio B works 4 days a week while Dev A works 5 or 6 days on his projects ?

How do you guys (Unity) seriously not see the issues here ? Do you guys think people just do 1 thing and life goes on ? I hold down 4-5 contracts at a time…your systems would red flag me weekly!
Activate, deactivate 2 times a day ? everyday ?

Now please, let’s leave the nonsense behind and talk about this like we’re adults. I have business to get done. Thank YOu

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In line with what Ostwind mentioned above, the License does clearly state that I’m not even allowed to INSTALL personal if I’ve got pro installed. Is that something that might change in a License revision in the near future? It would certainly make it easier for us Pro users to collaborate on Personal level projects. What if I don’t have multiple computers that are capable of running Unity effectively?

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Graham, that might be an oversimplification from the side of the fence that isn’t faced with the problem. Here is the exact problem, from a “tiny” company’s standpoint.

Company B may be tiny, but they have a few Pro already. Yes, they are under $100k but they bought pro (or subscribed), because they believe in Unity and have a decent existing dev group who wanted the Pro features.

They sure as heck don’t want to add a Splash screen… they are tiny now but they are trying to get bigger. Adding some other company’s splash screen isn’t helping. To bring in some outside help, the coders need to jump through hoops just to work.

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and there is dpharoah’s explanaiton now as well…
I am sure there are many many more stories surrounding this.

Please notice that it’s not s clear as you guys imagine/think it to be. After we get you to see that, we can move ahead and solve/resolve/solution’ize the situation. Thank You.

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By “a few Pro already”, do you mean you have some Pro and some Personal licenses?
Because as far as I’m aware, you have to make sure you don’t mix those licenses during a project. Each project must use ONLY Personal, or ONLY Pro.

As taken from the license agreement quote above:

Personally, I’ve always found the licensing agreement pretty straightforward to understand, I guess that’s just me…

17

I have this problem also.

I purchased 4 pro, and upgraded to 5 on pre-order to save money.

I only made about 3K on games last year so I’m WELL UNDER the 100k cap, and I could ask for a refund.

But I do like the Level 11 store, and not having a splash screen is nice too, and right now my project is making a dungeon crawler so having the dark skin is a HUGE bonus ; overly bright screen edges would make editing my project hell.

I have a friend who is also an indie, we made 1 mobile game together on Unity 4 mobile (free edition) over a year ago. We would like to work together on a desktop project but he has 5 free, and I have 5 Pro.

And as far as I can tell according to reading the Unity license - we are not allowed to work together on a project - ever.

So I paid Unity Technologies 1500 + 600 = $2100 dollars for a splash screen and I’m not allowed to ever work on a project with any other Indie dev?

It seems like you are literally forcing me to ask for a refund? I go to game jams! I want to collaborate with other dev’s and find out if we can make a good team or create a startup and not all of those people will be able to immediately afford Pro licenses, but I can so I’m not allowed to collaborate with anyone?

Please tell me you guys can come up with a more elegant answer?

Democratize this situation for me, pretty please.

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I see. This doesn’t extend to code or assets, but only mixing pro/personal editions of say, iOS addon, correct?

Therefore if one develops in pro, one cannot release using the personal addon, even though it was clarified, then not clarified and then clarified previously. And vice versa. As a moderator, I no longer have a clue what to advise people.

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Advise people to bother contact Unity with their legal questions? :stuck_out_tongue:

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I edited after having a good read :slight_smile: