PS3 and Unity... again...

News & General Discussion
1

Okay, so this is more geared towards Sony than to Unity, but I am curious if anyone here might have any info on this matter.

I am hoping Unity might have some info as they must have SOME kind of relationship with Sony to be able to support the PS3. I have seen in various posts over numerous months that Unity doesn’t release info on request, only when they are ready to announce… So before you think this question falls into that category, please bear in mind the difference between: “Please explain to me the details of…” and “Is there a difference?” Two very different questions…

First, the background…
PS3 support is coming. Great! But that doesn’t mean everyone with a pro license can just jump on the bandwagon and start making PS3 games… Oh noooo no no no no. There is Sony to contend with, first… I am assuming (hoping I am wrong, but assuming still) that Unity will require an additional (and possibly per-title) license for PS3 dev but on top of that there is still Sony’s costs and approvals etc to contend with…

Now, the question…
So what I am interested to know is, since I think most of us here will be venturing on to the PSN first (or “mostly” or “only”) instead of all of us becoming full blown game studios releasing in the high street just because we have Unity behind us… I am wondering if Sony will make it easier for Unity devs to get approval for PSN games than for full blown shop release titles…

I notice Sony has 2 separate signup processes, although the info required seems to be identical… So I am wondering, why do they have 2 sign up processes if the signup process follows the same path… Why say: " ‘PSN only’ or ‘PSN and shops’ " ? Is one license easier to obtain than the other?

If so, will the fact that we use Unity already count in our favor and make getting the PSN authorization easier or will it not make a difference at all?

To the non-Unity-staff out there, what info do you have on this issue?
To the Unity-staff, will getting a PSN-only license from Sony be any easier than a full blown license from them? Will the fact that we already have our own middleware make a difference to the fact that we have to lease their tools?

Okay, this is now leaning towards “How will Unity influence the Sony application process?” which is more along the lines of info they will/ can only reveal after the launch, so I will end my questions here…

Any info on Unity + PS3 would be most welcome.
Thanks

2

I doubt Unity support will change anything on how to develop a title for the PSN network/PS3.

You still have to purchase Unity Wii + the license from Nintendo to make games and even WiiWare for the Wii. It will be the same process. Buy your PS3 dev license/approval, then buy Unity PS3 and publish. Unity is just making it more easy for you to develop a game for any platform and then compile it on others without having to do the painstaking conversion to other systems. If you understand operating systems and hardware at a low level you’ll understand the best that to convert a game from one console to another is a huge pain as all operating system interaction code for the game engine must be completely rewritten to interface with the new systems operating system that you wish to port to.

3

I agree with the above, and have something to add. I doubt that Unity will have a pay per title system for the ps3.

4

Yo… Basically, everything you guys have said is whatI was expecting (and knew in the back of my mind)…

I wouldn’t have actually bothered to ask such a seemingly daft question if not for the fact that Sony offers the option of developing only for the PSN or an option to do the same +++.

I was sondering wether this is Sony’s answer to Microsoft’s XNA. A kind of entry level open to anyone who wants it… Not quite as open, but again, Sony’s answer to this… If this is the case, then would Unity as middleware cut the need to lease the Sony tools… that was basically what I was on about…

the Sony licensing is the part that got me confused in all of this… Why the dual standards / systems/ application process… and does this affect Unity in any way whatsoever… For example, Sony will only allow us to make PSN games and nothing more simply BECAUSE we use “unofficial” middleware…

These two questions is what is eating away at me…

The way I figured it, I would develop the game for Mac until I get around half way or further, then present the game to Sony as a kind of “I want to port this. I obviously have a working demo to show you and you can see I am capable, now give me a license, please”, then get the license, then get Unity PS3 so getting Unity PS3 now is not anywhere near high on my priorities list… I was just curious about the dual applications and any influence this might impose on Unity and our use of the two…

5

You have a bit of a funny idea about how these things work. Being a PSN developer isn’t about getting a licence off Sony the same way Blizzard hand out beta keys. Sony (and Nintendo for that matter) expect you to be a genuine developer (company, secure premises, able to purchase dev kits) and aren’t interested in working directly with hobbiests like Apple are.

Of course, what you can do, and have always been able to do, is make an absolutely fantastic game on PC/Mac and shop it around to platform holders and publishers in the hopes of getting picked up. And if you’re using Unity you’re in the awesome position of pointing out that you’re practically Wiiware and PSN ready. That removes a lot of risk for whoever you’re pitching it to.

6

yeah, that seems to be the plan… make the game, try to “sell” the game to platform holders, showing the risk is low as the game is done and they can see for themselves what the game is like and if they think it would be worth while…

The thing is, I am a hobbyist, trying to be come an indie… I want to do a release that will get lots of exposure and just placing it on my website and hoping I get enough traffic to make me a billionaire in my lifetime or enough to buy my breakfast every morning is simply not going to cut it. Weeding out which of the “we give you a higher cut from the sale of your game if you publish through us only” sites to use is also a headache I would like to avoid.

I was thinking the PSN would be a great platform to develop for… Getting a game on there will surely give me a wide enough audience to either brand me a failure or an indie… But before I can be branded an indie on the PSN store, I first need to be a “genuine developer”… before I can become an indie… I have to be one… before I can become one… :frowning: Seems getting onto the PS3 is still going to be a mission and a half and developing for other platforms first is mandatory :frowning:

Well that sucks… :frowning:

7

I think you misunderstand yourself, by even working on a project you have already become an Indie game developer. All of us here who use Unity who aren’t part of publicly owned game studio(IE: a studio who you can buy stock in) are independent game developers.

Yes the thing is you have to have cash and show potential to be able to develop for Wiiware and PSN. From my understandings though, the xBox Live network is much more lax as they give away the XNA studio to whoever wants it.

So yes, you will probably have to show you are a developer to Sony before they will let you buy a dev kit from them to allow you to submit a game made in Unity PS3 to them. Also, be prepared for possible high fees. A Wiiware dev kit is $10,000 if I remember correctly.

Good luck with your project.

8

xna studio is nowhere comparable to those platforms though.
it only gives you the possibility to enter the home hacker marketplace, available to a handfull of countries (<<<< XBox Live arcade marketplace)

to enter the live marketplace you also need to be licensed dev.

But if we are realistic, the dev kit isn’t the problem.
Your real costs will be the approval fees. You can find a few articles on the fees you can expect from first to last approval step for those platforms, against that the few thousand for a dev kit can easily start to pale, especially if you have to go through the same step several times due to bugs

9

Cheers for that…

Yeah, I recall the Wii tools being priced $10k. i thought I recently read somewhere that prices fluxuate between $2k and $10k depending on the team (although I have no idea what influences the price, though)

I figured the Ps3 would be expensive also and decided to hope against hope that the PSN only option would offer some kind of saving or even make it affordable for “indies” the world over, leaving it up to the indies only to prove themselves worthy before they can buy the license for like… what … $500 with Unity as the back end and $2000 with their own tools. Unlikely, but a guy can dream, can’t he…

Regarding Indie status, I like to call myself an indie amongst my friends but every now and then I feel like a fraud if I call myself an indie without having a huge hit behind my name… I feel like a kid writing a short story in high school then applies for work at a newspaper claiming to be a writer… That’s like building a bird house and claiming you are now a carpenter… But that’s just me… Modesty rules most of the time… Other times I feel the need to have a big head :stuck_out_tongue:

10

dreamora, you are fast mate… your reply came between my reading and replying :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyways, could you please share some of those figures you are speaking of? I am real interested in the thought of developing for a console but (as you must have realized by now) my knowledge on the subject is severely lacking…

11

I’m not allowed to, sorry.

Thats why I am recommending to look for articles on the matter, as a few indie devs with xbox arcade titles out shared some knowledge. I think the devs of that synergetic music game that hit the xbox live and later the steam store with such a hype wave last year put up some basic numbers on their blog for example

12

OMG! You are not going to believe this…

I am a PS3 junkie and cannot stand the 360. Having read about anyone who wants it being given the opportunity to develop their games for the 360 and hearing that Unity will support the 360, I went out and bought a 360 especially for the prospect of being able to publish my games on it…

Since then it has been laying under my TV. I didn’t even put in the remote’s batteries. It is just patiently waiting for the day when I get Unity 3… So out of sight… and completely out of mind… so much so that I completely forgot about it and completely forgot about Unity supporting the 360… OMG! So there IS a way!?! Yeay!

LOL!!! So I can publish it for the 360 to show to Sony to say: “Well?” LOL! To become a Sony dev I need to first publish to the competition… Funny stuff, man, funny stuff…!

13

Not to rain on your parade, but that’s not the case. Unity 3 will not be supporting XNA - it will be supporting the regular Live Arcade Marketplace. In other words, you’ll still need to be a licensed Xbox developer in order to make something in Unity 3 and put it up on Live. XNA is a totally separate (but cool in it’s own right) platform.

14

I am so glad he wasn’t raining on my parade, there… :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh, well, so be it.

Basically the only thing that I wanted to find out was wether or not the PSN only option of Sony’s licensing agreement is something I should be getting excited about and so far the answers I have been getting have been a resounding “no”.

It seems that although Unity will now be supporting all the current gen consoles, for the time being this support will be of no use to me.

That was basically all I wanted to know… and now I do.

So thanks all for the input. Much appreciated. Even yours, Dreamora… your input that is going to give me nightmares every time I think about it… much appreciated :slight_smile:

15

Did you hear about PS3 Minis license?
Theres no restriction or requierement to make PS3 minis games. You only need a registered company with a registered business number and a registered static IP adress to your company. It does not cost anything, if you have theses requirements you have the minis license. Now, having the lisence does not mean that you can jump and start developing for PS3.
You need at least one Dev kit(now priced at 2000$), provably one test-kit, and you have to pay for your game rating ESRB (about 2500$).
But how Unity and PS3 minis license will work, I’m not sure. How will Unity and PS3 tools will work., not sure either. For example, will i be able to see PS3 logs on the Prodg tools, etc, i dont know. Will Unity Ps3 requieres a PS3 programer? Or is just build and see your game running on the dev-kit?, i dont know either.

16

And how much the PS3 license will cost is neither known, but going by the Wii license, $15k++ per title is the minimum to expect on top of your unity pro licenses

17

If there is some Unity PS3 minis license, i dont think their will target that much (15K). As minis developers, targets a very low adience, games are most of them pretty smalls. Is not like PSN titles. But anyways, wait and see. ^^

18

Well we will see.
Your assumption bases on the fact that PS3 won’t cost more than Wii which I think is by default a pretty risky assumption given the complexity of efficient ps3 engines and code.
Potentially PSN will be $30k with PS3 minis being only 15k and physical destribution $50k+ … who knows.

perhaps all these licenses will vanish from the page and it becomes an NDA bound on request only topic like the webplayer caching

19

Thats also true,
But PSN minis titles should be smaller (150MB), you cannot support any kind of multiplayer, is almost the response of Sony to Apple iPhone games.
Unity PSN license for 30K should be pretty good deal, most of the engines i saw sold their PSN licence for about 50K per title.
Dont know how Unity will do with 360/PS3. Provably
the same as the Wii, binary + per title basis.

20

Moral of the story is that the big dev companies only want serious developers who have been successful enough to have money to purchase dev kits developing games on their consoles. Of course, there is the risky route of producing a game that can run on their console and having it no be approved, like the old NES days where many cartridges and game companies did not have the seal of Nintendo approval. Then you get to produce all DVD’s/Blueray discs on your own and send out hard copies to retailers willing to sell your merchandise, just like the olden days :P. Of course I am not serious. Although I assume it is still theoretically a route one could take(a non-successful route I might add)