Update about the future of the Unity Forums and Unity Discussions

For the LLM haters, I don’t see the point in this resentment against this tech, it’s very useful and getting noticeably better at programming, so opposing it is postponing the inevitable. And anyway google uses crawlers so where do you draw the line?

Regarding community survival, I don’t see an issue, forum might get less of the same questions thanks to LLM answering for us. Another win. I frankly see it thriving, just scattered on a few Discord servers filled with great folks eager to help as they can, in real time, which is way more fun to interact with.

Finally, using Unreal, you can see Unity vast advantage in knowledge accessibility and that must remain. But, unlike Unreal, that knowledge is highly diluted by large amount of low quality posts. LLMs solve that as mentioned above.

So, after this little bit of thinking :point_up_2: I am even more convinced that preventing crawlers is not to our benefit. I think it’s more to do with emotional attachment, and that’s valid to, just not something healthy in the long run.

One of the biggest problems in this industry and even the world at large is people are becoming too comfortable taking a quick and dirty solution and not learning key concepts and hard earned fundamentals.

Have you guys seen Idiocracy? A world where people are totally coddled by tech and everything slowly went to crap and no one knows why things are the way they are?

The allure of AI is this wonderful tech that will do amazing things us dumb humans can’t.

The problem is AI teaches people the absolute worst practice any discipline can adopt: to rely on universal and sub par solutions. To default to “average” solutions that are spit out of a cold machine. This is absolutely counter to the heart of code and what makes it so incredible.

Code is not a commodity, it can be duplicated to infinity, so it’s important that the code we make be as high quality and innovative as possible.

There is no need for endless, boring, averaged code that does what other code does as only the best solutions are needed and disseminated at a mass scale in mass adopted apps, games, tools, etc.

If anything, we don’t speak to the negatives of AI enough, because it represents the end of forward progress. The tech is inherently locked into regurgitating what has already done.

It’s madness how much we have let this tech stunt our forward progress already. The sunk cost into this tech is incredible and we will feel a lack of innovation for decades to come.

What’s sad is what little we do to teach people core competencies without AI. How hard would it be to have a few learning resources of the highest quality? But it wasn’t until some glitzy, glamory AI tech came out that executives started salivating at the potential, immediate and easily monopolized monetary gains. Kind of a sign of how busted our system is when it comes to getting the most out of creatives and turning out quality products.

I’ll admit, this tech was really good at stealing the style of countless concept artists and putting them out of a job. But now that we have this AI tech for art we will never have innovation in art ever again. The well of creators that fed those algorithms are out of a job now and the medium is dead.

The same will happen to code if this is mass adopted. It will be the end of innovation.

Shame the people steering all this tech with all the money and power have no idea WTF they’re doing and mesmerized by its visual capabilities which are immediate.

This tech is the great destroyer. It’s already destroyed art, it’s about to kill the movie star. It’s about to silence the musician.

Is music better these days? Are effects shots better? Is the art better?

AI is cheap, it’s fast, and it’s fun to use in the short term, it doesn’t talk back, it doesn’t have any scruples about anything. It quietly does whatever hair brained tasks you give it in your quest for market domination, but if you analyze the long term affects it has on our society it’s absolutely POISON. It destroys all forward progress by cutting off our will to improve ourselves and push the mediums.

At best, I will admit that such AI can be good for getting coders up and running, but if its impact is anything close to what it did to art (which it will be), people will rely on this tech as a crutch and never become great at code and pushing the envelope.

We have a real problem in the world today. No one suffers to get good at anything any more. No one builds any character or learns things the hard way. And if this decline continues, we’re about to enter some pretty dark times in the coming years as all aspects of the world continue to decline and weaken.

It’s already ridiculous how little innovation we get in coding languages these days now that everyone learns only the surface level things enough to use tech, but not the fundamentals that would allow for radical innovation and improvement. This will only stunt any forward progress further.

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I think this means that the link does not redirect correct

gives the below than the thread, which is irrelevant if is locked because old or active

Oops! That page doesn’t exist or is private.

I have still most Google links redirect wrong for my posts also, so this is still critical issue

e.g this works

but this does not

LLMs doesn’t solve that at all! They have no ability to judge the quality of the answers they’re ingesting, and their job is to predict the most likely answer, not the best answer. If most answers are mediocre, LLMs can’t get better than mediocre.

I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but the forums and now discussions are full of people going “hey, help me with my code that I made with ChatGPT”, and their code is absolute fucking nonsense, and they don’t know or understand anything, so there’s no way to actually help them without just straight up rewriting their stuff for them, which nobody is interested in.

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And I think we’re fully entitled to respond to them with “go learn code properly”.

That said it falls under low-effort anyway so we ought to just report them.

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In retrospect, one criterion should have been “is linked to from another post in the forums.” Having dead links within the forums is a bad look.

I think that’s probably the proper response, but in any case it really reduces the signal to noise ratio.

I though the criteria refer to having the thread locked, than have it erased or invisible

EDIT Indeed read it again and seems if not have one reply or like wont be available. Feels a bit arbitrary tbh but on the other hand will clean up the forum in some way

AI is not on topic for this thread but is an interesting discussion. If some of you think is a nice discussion to have between us I’ve created a thread where we can do it

You seem dead set on your opinion and I guess our experience differs on that.

I’d rather go back to my initial point which is that LLM are here to stay and that opposing that is a waste of energy.

And in fact…

…supports what I’m advocating. You can’t tackle that flood of nonsense that AI allows by adding a no-AI clause in the TOS or by banning them by the truckload, they’ll circumvent.
Starving the LLM will definitely not improve this situation.
Helping them might.

My dude, you need to read Dune.
It was written by a really super smart guy who did loads of LSD, his mind was vast like the cosmos and loads of this crazy stuff is corroborated by history: As far back in history as I’ve looked this has been the ebb of flow of humanity.
Some delegated their decision making to others, others honed their humanity.
So relax, realize that it’s inexorable and find a way to transcend what’s coming, going beyond the intellect is a good start, Bene Geserit style. The human potential is far beyond that.
And with a bit of luck we dodge a Butlerian Jihad and, 10k years later, we won’t be fighting over galactic forum who should own that desert planet :worm:

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curious that how are pageviews calculated?
does 1 scroll down create data reload and calculate as page view or something else that might increase them or some redirect issue?

since it seems strange to have such a big difference…
(more likely less people are using forums and unity in general) ?

Well we have more logged In users and also non logged in users than before so it would seem that more people are using discussions.

The page view is a calculation based on number of posts viewed , I suspect using the system used for SEO that replicates pagination, and before you ask no we can’t switch it on or have it as an option, it is just for SEO crawlers.

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Wow SEO crawler bots get paginated views lol, I find that amusing and sad. I hope I never see a Discourse developer at dev conference.

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It is not really user usable and is explained on the discourse site.

thanks for the tip,
doesn’t look so bad, just need to slap custom CSS to fix few things! (just for fun)

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Love me some Dune! Mau’Dib or whatever it was used to be my handle when playing Command and Conquer back in the day. But if I remember correctly the following books were a warning about false prophets! (on top of being kinda boring)

Seriously though we’ll never travel the stars if we put all our eggs in one basket and simply assume unrealized language models are going to do all the work for us. We’re dangerously close to getting stuck in the current level of technological advancement if we don’t start creating more initiatives for people to learn the fundamentals.

AI is a terribly dangerous distraction that invites us to put our faith in an uncontrolled and potentially random outside entity that does not reprsent our humanity. If it’s simply the organization that puts together the AI before everyone else because they took shortcuts, we are doomed.

We either enter the singularity with our humanity intact, or some reckless organization vying for world domination or racing to cure death before they snuff it will cause the end of all humanity before the “intelligent” machine is created in such a way that it values what came before it.

Such a large uptick in stats, if it’s real and not a fluke in the data or how it’s measured/compared, should correlate to the number of Unity users. Especially in the middle of high season for vacations. If it doesn’t, that’s a big warning.

I find it impossible to believe that a forum platform change causes a ~4x increase in traffic. There must be some other factors at play that (heavily) skew the data.

As a paying user who visits the forum for info to get stuff done, the forum experience is objectively worse today for me (with potential to improve):

  • Many dead links to forum posts
  • Lots more scrolling required to read posts
  • Broken formatting in many migrated posts
  • Post don’t show the post count of users anymore (I used it as a poor man’s “trust” metric to soft-rate replies)
  • Qualitatively, I noticed that my Unity Google searches seem to now return much fewer Unity forum results than before the migration.
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Every login is authenticated so genuine, and the system differentiates between bot and people for anonymous ones. It also matches the amplitude data so it’s got a second metric to check against. We have had an uptick in new signups and there is also the new factor to consider.

The deadlinks are mainly ones with a page specific url that we are working on finding an acceptable solution to most of the others have been resolved. If you find broken formatting in many post please let us have the links and we will investigate, we are not seeing or getting feedback that a large number are messed up.

The SEO team is not seeing a drop in results but I will flag this to them.

I understand that there was a lot of change and that it makes people feel uncomfortable, but the site is working and we will continue to improve it.

I am being transparent and sharing s much as I can. I am sharing actual data so that you can see I’m not just driving forward regardless. Perception can be a fickle thing one man’s chaos is another’s order.

I will keep communicating and listening and hopefully in time you will all feel comfortable here.

Brach

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I think the most important in useability is to first do a real time loading as the right bar is moved, otherwise is impossible to browse a larger thread as it stands currently, as have to try by chance to find the place needed, scrolling can take literally forever in this case so is not acceptable.

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Just wondering, have you checked are the new signups likely bots? (username or email would give some indication… since those chatgpt bots are getting smarter to signup etc.)